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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Topic: exploring history... a question
    Posted: 13 October 2012 at 12:55pm
Exploring history...
the beginning of the end...

Why did the Muslim world... the ottoman empire... get involved in WWI?

and why when the Muslim world thinks of the west, and western influence... why do they direct their anger at the United States?
It was England and France that so callously carved up the Ottoman world after WWI and changed the way of life there.

Thanks for your views.
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2012 at 4:11am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Exploring history...the beginning of the end...Why did the Muslim world... the ottoman empire... get involved in WWI?and why when the Muslim world thinks of the west, and western influence... why do they direct their anger at the United States?It was England and France that so callously carved up the Ottoman world after WWI and changed the way of life there.Thanks for your views.


For your information the Muslims do not revere the Ottoman Empire. They suppressed and oppressed millions of fellow Muslims and took the side of Germany in WW1.

IMHO the United States is hated because first and foremost they support the zionist state of Israel thereby oppressing the Muslims from the background. The USA also controls the puppet Muslim regimes of the world in suppressing the ordinary people.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2012 at 11:47am
Originally posted by Abu Loren


For your information the Muslims do not revere the Ottoman Empire. They suppressed and oppressed millions of fellow Muslims and took the side of Germany in WW1.

IMHO the United States is hated because first and foremost they support the zionist state of Israel thereby oppressing the Muslims from the background. The USA also controls the puppet Muslim regimes of the world in suppressing the ordinary people.


Greetings Abu Loren,

How does the 'Muslim world', in your opinion, feel about Russia?
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2012 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Exploring history...the beginning of the end...Why did the Muslim world... the ottoman empire... get involved in WWI?and why when the Muslim world thinks of the west, and western influence... why do they direct their anger at the United States?It was England and France that so callously carved up the Ottoman world after WWI and changed the way of life there.Thanks for your views.

Caringheart,
wrong place, this should be in world politics section not in interfaith dialogue.
I think brother Abu Loren has summed up the answer pretty nicely.
You can say that the Ottoman empire was the last of what was left of the Muslim rule once stretching from Spain to the Himalayas. The rising European powers saw this as an opportunity to subjugate and nullify them once for all. The British had a head start even before by colonizing and expanding their empire around the globe including the Muslim lands.
The brutal occupation or Muslim lands by the occupying European powers had devastating affect on Muslims and their future generations. The genocide, exploitation, forced migration, dividing them based on ethenicity or language, stealing their resources, depriving them of their rights to a free and prosperous life and toward education and advancement had destructive results for the region.
The new phase of the same (colonization)began with a different face after the WWI. As the cost of direct colonization start to rise and the world moved into the modern age, the media, the human rights and so on, it became obvious to let those already sucked out countries to be "independent". So the occupiers got a better idea! To install a local as their agent, who would fulfill their purpose and work for them without the name of colonization, and they will rule through him. He will do as they will tell him through their advisers, suppress his own people as they intend never to let them rise up again. And as long as he does as they wanted, they will protect him and provide for him a luxurious lifestyle, even if they say otherwise publicly.

This recent wave of so called "Arab Spring" and so on that we were made fools to believe in was just the latest episode of the same. Some of those installed leaders were either just too old to continue, or some of them were not listening or obeying the orders and some just needed to be controlled more. So there you have it, in a nutshell the part of that history.
When something happens to any people, always there is a reason for it. If we look for it we will find it and thus we will have a better understanding of what is going on, and how to fix it, if that's an option.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 18 October 2012 at 2:40pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2012 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren


For your information the Muslims do not revere the Ottoman Empire. They suppressed and oppressed millions of fellow Muslims and took the side of Germany in WW1.


What good then has Islam brought to the world?
To where can we look to see the good of Islam?

Originally posted by Abu Loren


IMHO the United States is hated because first and foremost they support the zionist state of Israel thereby oppressing the Muslims from the background. The USA also controls the puppet Muslim regimes of the world in suppressing the ordinary people.


Do you know why the U.S. came to be an ally of Israel?
After WWII the mid-east was in need of funds to build, and for some reason they chose to make alliances with Russia.  This was during the cold war era between the U.S. and Russia.  As Russia built its allies in the mid-east the U.S. forged stronger ties with Israel.
The 'west' in Israel is/was a defense against Russia.

Watching the Road to 9/11 helped me to understand how the Muslim people now see this as the 'west' keeping a foothold in the territory.  Which after watching the film it is understood why they would feel as they do about this.  What happened after WWI when Britain moved in and took over was wrong and devastating for the people in that area. 
But they (Muslims) should also be able to understand that every country does what it needs to do to protect its people.  The U.S. needed a defense against Russia... and as it turns out, so did the mid-east.
Has Russia been a friend to its Islamic neighbors?

When the Muslim world accuses 'the west' of supporting tyrants - What has happened since it removed its support from  'the tyrants'?  More tyrants(or in this case now, terrorist organizations)  have moved in to take their place.  Is this better?  Are there any good options?
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:22am
Originally posted by Caringheart


What good then has Islam brought to the world?
To where can we look to see the good of Islam?
The Ottoman Empire is insignificant in Islam. Islam has brought salvation for mankind. The good in Islam is the rapid spread of Islam throughout the world where people recognise it as the Truth. Whole nations have been influenced by this religion such as Malaysia and Indonesia where they were formerly Buddhists. There are now a world wide movement towards Islam, if you look at Western Africa and now South America the sprint towards Islam is gaining momentu in IMO South America will have Islamic nations within fifty years.

With regard to your other points, I really don't want to get into politics as it is a dirty game and controlled by satan.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart


What good then has Islam brought to the world?
To where can we look to see the good of Islam?
The Ottoman Empire is insignificant in Islam. Islam has brought salvation for mankind. The good in Islam is the rapid spread of Islam throughout the world where people recognise it as the Truth. Whole nations have been influenced by this religion such as Malaysia and Indonesia where they were formerly Buddhists. There are now a world wide movement towards Islam, if you look at Western Africa and now South America the sprint towards Islam is gaining momentu in IMO South America will have Islamic nations within fifty years.

With regard to your other points, I really don't want to get into politics as it is a dirty game and controlled by satan.



Greetings Abu Loren,

Do you hold up Indonesia, or the Muslim countries of Africa, as examples to the world?


You don't mind speaking of politics when it involves expressing hatred towards Israel, or the United States... and yes, that would be from the devil.  Hatred is always from the devil.
With all due respect, you only mind discussing politics when it reveals your unjustified hatred.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 23 October 2012 at 10:03am
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 24 October 2012 at 11:05am
Caringheart,
I think you are being naive in your understanding of what is religion why it came, and what we do with it, what is the purpose of this life, and what is real life?
Nothing has changed since Adam in terms of these things I mentioned above.
Once you have a understanding of these basic things I mentioned and more like them, everything will make sense to you. You think like the Jehovah's witness, who believe that one day this world will become so peaceful that lions will drink alongside deer and goats water from the same pond without devouring them.
If God has such a plan, of course it can happen, but he has in OT, NT and FT (The Quran) has told us that in this life we will go through good and bad, through trials after which we will enter the life that will be eternal. It will be good for those who followed the guidelines set by Almighty. It will be miserable for those who lived a life against the guidelines set by the Almighty and who instead let themselves to be deceived by Satan.
You also fail to understand so far that at the end, it will be the individual, each one of us that will be judged, not whole countries or people. A whole population cannot be good or bad just because.
Each one of us acts, thinks and intend differently and the true knowledge and record of that is only with God.

Having said all of that does not mean that we do not promote peace, love and brotherhood, nor does it stop us to be kind to others.
Remember, it is Islam that teaches us that peace is established through justice. We humans aught to follow that command here on earth. The Almighty will establish peace at the end by delivering the ultimate Justice which only He can deliver.
So, it is an individual effort that counts because what you do is what will affect you only, at the end!
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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