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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Hasan,Aren't there 99 or more different names for God in the Qur'an, to represent different aspects of His nature?Salaam,CH



CAringheart,
yes these are all mentioned in the Quran by God himself.
Here is a beautiful recitation with meanings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrcoYTGCXvc

Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 12 December 2012 at 11:32am
Hi Honeto,

(Responding to the first part of a post on page 7)

___"Placid writes,
"John 1. confirms that the Word (Logos) was with God in the beginning,:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."

Honeto replied:
Question arises, if like many you are suggesting that somehow it refers to Jesus. If that is so why did they called him Jesus and not "Logos" if it was a name according to you.

Response: --- ‘Logos’ means Word. When God says “Be” and it is, it seems that the Logos is the Creative Power of God, to bring it into ‘Being.’
Check out the wording of this verse in Surah 3:
45 (And remember) when the angels said, "O Mary, Lo! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near unto God."

And check out this verse in Surah 4:
171 --- Where it said, ‘The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was a messenger of --- God --- and His Word, which He conveyed into Mary, --- and a Spirit from Himself.'

--- (I don’t believe in the faulty trinity concept, but here are the Three that were there in the beginning, --- God, the Father (of all), --- the Word (Logos), --- and the Holy Spirit.)
The verse goes on to say, “Don’t say Three, God is only one God.”

When it says in John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among US (US, meaning John and the other disciples that witnesses Jesus), --- and WE beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten (Unique) Son of God.”
--- (Unique, 'one of a kind.' In the various appearances I mention below, this is the only time that the Logos 'indwelt' a fleshly body.)

--- In Hebrews 10 it gives the fulfillment of what is written in Prophecy:
5 “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”

--- The Word (Logos) appeared various times in the OT, (As Melchizedek in Gen 14:18, and Hebrews 7:1-3. --- The Lord, in Genesis 18:1. --- The Commander of the Lord’s army in Joshua 5:13-15. --- The fourth man in the ‘fiery furnace’ in Daniel 3:23-25. --- And as The LORD of hosts, who is recorded for the last time in Malachi 4.
--- The only appearance of the Word (Logos) in the NT was in the Person of Jesus.

--- I hope you can follow this ‘transition’ in Malachi 3:
1 “Behold, I send My messenger,
And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
--- To explain it,I will add brackets)

“Behold I (the LORD of hosts) send My messenger (small ‘m’ on messenger (meaning John the Baptist) (Isaiah 40 3-5)
And he (John the Baptist) will prepare the way before Me (the LORD of hosts),
And the Lord (the coming Messiah) whom you seek
Will suddenly come to His (God’s) temple,
Even the Messenger (capital ‘M’ on Messenger) of the (new) covenant
In whom you (will) delight (at His coming).
Behold, He (the Messiah, Jesus) is coming,”
Says the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 4 is the last mention of the LORD of hosts --- In the New Testament (covenant}, He is CALLED the Lord Jesus.
--- The Word (Logos) who filled these former roles, is now the Word that took on the form of flesh, in the Person of Jesus.(John 1:14).


Placid

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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2012 at 4:01am
Originally posted by Placid

Hi Honeto,

(Responding to the first part of a post on page 7)

___"Placid writes,
"John 1. confirms that the Word (Logos) was with God in the beginning,:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."

Honeto replied:
Question arises, if like many you are suggesting that somehow it refers to Jesus. If that is so why did they called him Jesus and not "Logos" if it was a name according to you.

Response: --- ‘Logos’ means Word. When God says “Be” and it is, it seems that the Logos is the Creative Power of God, to bring it into ‘Being.’
Check out the wording of this verse in Surah 3:
45 (And remember) when the angels said, "O Mary, Lo! God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near unto God."

And check out this verse in Surah 4:
171 --- Where it said, ‘The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was a messenger of --- God --- and His Word, which He conveyed into Mary, --- and a Spirit from Himself.'

--- (I don’t believe in the faulty trinity concept, but here are the Three that were there in the beginning, --- God, the Father (of all), --- the Word (Logos), --- and the Holy Spirit.)
The verse goes on to say, “Don’t say Three, God is only one God.”

When it says in John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among US (US, meaning John and the other disciples that witnesses Jesus), --- and WE beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten (Unique) Son of God.”
--- (Unique, 'one of a kind.' In the various appearances I mention below, this is the only time that the Logos 'indwelt' a fleshly body.)

--- In Hebrews 10 it gives the fulfillment of what is written in Prophecy:
5 “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”

--- The Word (Logos) appeared various times in the OT, (As Melchizedek in Gen 14:18, and Hebrews 7:1-3. --- The Lord, in Genesis 18:1. --- The Commander of the Lord’s army in Joshua 5:13-15. --- The fourth man in the ‘fiery furnace’ in Daniel 3:23-25. --- And as The LORD of hosts, who is recorded for the last time in Malachi 4.
--- The only appearance of the Word (Logos) in the NT was in the Person of Jesus.

--- I hope you can follow this ‘transition’ in Malachi 3:
1 “Behold, I send My messenger,
And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
--- To explain it,I will add brackets)

“Behold I (the LORD of hosts) send My messenger (small ‘m’ on messenger (meaning John the Baptist) (Isaiah 40 3-5)
And he (John the Baptist) will prepare the way before Me (the LORD of hosts),
And the Lord (the coming Messiah) whom you seek
Will suddenly come to His (God’s) temple,
Even the Messenger (capital ‘M’ on Messenger) of the (new) covenant
In whom you (will) delight (at His coming).
Behold, He (the Messiah, Jesus) is coming,”
Says the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 4 is the last mention of the LORD of hosts --- In the New Testament (covenant}, He is CALLED the Lord Jesus.
--- The Word (Logos) who filled these former roles, is now the Word that took on the form of flesh, in the Person of Jesus.(John 1:14).


Placid

 
Questions for Mr. Placid.
 
1) Why does the logos (word) has to exist as an entity?
2) Why does this logos (word) then be manifested as Jesus (pbuh)?
3) Why can't this logos (word) just be a word "Be"?
4) Why do Christians try to complicate everything?
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 13 December 2012 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Hasan,Aren't there 99 or more different names for God in the Qur'an, to represent different aspects of His nature?Salaam,CH

CAringheart,
yes these are all mentioned in the Quran by God himself.
Here is a beautiful recitation with meanings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrcoYTGCXvc
Hasan
Thank you Hasan.  That was interesting to watch.
 


Edited by Caringheart - 13 December 2012 at 12:33pm
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 14 December 2012 at 5:41am
Hi Honeto,

Quote: --- so why did they called him Jesus and not "Logos" if it was a name according to you. It does not make sense if someone has a name already, like you claim, how come his name is then changed. Did anyone mention in the OT that their is a person of God named "Logos" and his name will be changed, and he (that person of God) will come to the earth?

Response: --- There was a name given for Jesus in the OT, in Isaiah 7:
13 Then he said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also?
14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a Sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

The prophecy is fulfilled in Matthew 1:
20 But while he (Joseph) thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

--- So, here we have two names --- Immanuel, which means “God with us,” or “God is with us.” --- And here is the meaning of ‘God being with us.’

Almighty God cannot be seen. --- The Holy Spirit cannot be seen. The Word (Logos) cannot be seen.
--- So, the Word (Logos) can only be Manifested through a Personage that can be seen, --- like Melchizedek in Genesis, --- the Commander of the Lord’s army in Joshua, (who I believe became) the unseen Voice of God, “The LORD of hosts,” through the OT. --- And I had explained the transition from ‘the LORD of hosts,’ to Jesus; in the previous post from Malachi 3:1.

--- So, the promised Sign would be Immanuel, meaning, “God with us,” in the person of Jesus.
21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
--- So, the name Jesus means, “Savior”

--- (I see that you have 2 names. I address you as Honeto, and you sign ‘Hasan.
So, are you Honeto only on this Forum, and Hasan all the time? --- So then you are both at the same time, ---‘some of the time,’ is that right? --- Not confusing.)

So, the name and Sign ‘Immanuel’ meant that God was sending His Word (Logos) to indwell a human body among us, who would be ‘God’s Manifestation’ to the world, --- and this One would be called Jesus, meaning Savior, --- and Christ, meaning Messiah.

The Sign is mentioned again in these verses in Luke 2:
8 Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid.
10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people.
11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
12 And this will be the Sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.”
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:
14 “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”
15 So it was, when the angels had gone away from them into heaven, that the shepherds said to one another, “Let us now go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has come to pass, which the Lord has made known to us.”
16 And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Babe lying in a manger.
17 Now when they had seen Him, they made widely known the saying which was told them concerning this Child.

Notice the wording of this verse in Surah 3:
43 (And remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary.”

--- And a few verses later are these verses where Jesus said, in Surah 3:
50 I come unto you with a Sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to God and obey me.
51 God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a Straight path.


Placid

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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 15 December 2012 at 3:01pm
Placid writes:
    "Response: --- There was a name given for Jesus in the OT, in Isaiah 7:
13 Then he said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also?
14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a Sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel."


Two things worth noting here: one that there is no mention that it will be God's son or God himself. As we all know that Jews were expecting a Messiah, not a God to come on earth as some try to preach.
Second, even though as a Muslim I believe in the virgin birth of the Messiah, I also believe like this verse suggest, his name was not Jesus. How it could be when letter "J" was added to English language around four hundred year ago, while Messiah came over two thousand years ago. It's funny that some people renamed Messiah after "J" was added to English language to Jesus some sixteen hundred years after he was born.

Also it is worth noting that names are proper nouns that means they should remain the same regardless of crossing language boundaries.
For example my name Hasan which is Arabic, it means handsome I think . If in Mexico, if someone call me guapo, I will be flattered, but still they have to address me with Sr. Hasan, not Sr. Guapo .
So, regardless where I go I am called and known with that name,
Hasan.    

Edited by honeto - 15 December 2012 at 3:36pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 17 December 2012 at 7:13am
The name Immanuel given in Isaiah is interpreted in the Sign of Jesus coming as Savior in Matthew 1:23, and it means "God with us," or "God is with us."

Would it matter if it said, "Yoi shall call His name Joshua, or Hoshea, or Jesus"? They each mean Savior or Salvation, --- Should they not rather have called Him Savior? --- Then the critics would say, but that is not a proper name.

In the Greek interlinear, the Greek word is translated 'Jesus." Matthew 1:21 says, "You shall call His name Jesus for He will save His people from their sins."

What was the English translation in in 400 AD or in 600 AD in the Quran?


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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:01pm
Hi Abu,

Quote:
1) Why does the logos (word) has to exist as an entity?
2) Why does this logos (word) then be manifested as Jesus (pbuh)?
3) Why can't this logos (word) just be a word "Be"?
4) Why do Christians try to complicate everything?

Response: --- John wrote in John 1:
1 “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
This sounds like it is confirming that the Word (Logos) was God.

--- However, it is important to understand what that meant to the Jews and the Greeks, --- as it was written to them both.
The Jews were familiar with God ‘Speaking the Word, and it was done.’ --- To the Jews, the Word meant ‘The Creative power of God Himself.’

To the Greeks the term “Word” meant “Logos,” meaning, ‘The reason and power for the Universe.’ --- The Greeks had the concept that ‘behind it all’ there was a rational “Intelligence” that created and sustained all things, including the Cosmos.
While we call that the Power of our Almighty and Everlasting God, the Greeks called that Power, “Logos.”

John 1:2 says He (the Word), was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him (the Word).
4 In Him (the Word), was life, and the life was the light of men. (This ‘light of men’ also meant ‘enlightenment’ and intelligence to relate and respond to God.)

Now to go a little deeper we can look at Genesis 1:1 where it says, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the Spirit of God moved (or was hovering) over the face of the waters
--- (Scientists agree that Life began in the sea, do they not?)

So the Spirit of God brought “Life” to God’s Creation.
3 And God said, ‘Let there “BE” Light, --- and there was Light
--- So we can say that the Spirit of God brought ‘Life’ into the world
And the Word “BE” brought ‘Light’ into the world.
The Spirit and the Word “BE” were there with God in the beginning
--- So they were recognized as ‘the power of God in Creation, --- and in the world.’

The wonderful Mystery of God is there, so I won’t go deeper into it as I know it can be confusing.

However, God created ‘beings’ (angels) to surround His throne, He loved them and they loved Him, but He went a step further to create ‘beings’ with a free will who would love God, of their own desire, in response to God’s love for them.

--- Notice how God created Adam? --- It says “He breathed into his (Adam’s) nostrils the ‘Breath of Life and man became a living “Being.”
--- Notice how God brought Jesus into being? --- He breathed into Mary’s body (or womb), and she conceived.

(Enough for now, a little more later. --- And you may have more questions.)


Placid

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