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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Topic: Literal or figurative: the sky 'has no cr
    Posted: 03 October 2012 at 7:09pm
As if to overcome any doubt, Sura 67 verse 3 points out that we see no cracks or rifts when we look up at the sky.

This syllogism would make sense supposing the sky were indeed a dome-shaped structure, as many civilisations used to believe until a few centuries ago.

However, as a rhetorical device, the very idea now seems quaintly misguided.

Given that the Qur'an contains no errors, should we therefore interpret this particular verse as merely figurative or poetic?

Are there any authorities that can tell us which verses in the Qur'an are literally true?
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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 04 October 2012 at 9:37pm
Another possibility is that 67:3 was included on purpose as a kind of bait/decoy to ensure that undeserving infidels in future would continue to be led astray. In the meantime the same verse actually helped to win real converts.

If that's not clever, tell me what is?
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Quote nothing Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2012 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by nospam001

As if to overcome any doubt, Sura 67 verse 3 points out that we see no cracks or rifts when we look up at the sky.

This syllogism would make sense supposing the sky were indeed a dome-shaped structure, as many civilisations used to believe until a few centuries ago.

However, as a rhetorical device, the very idea now seems quaintly misguided.

Given that the Qur'an contains no errors, should we therefore interpret this particular verse as merely figurative or poetic?

Are there any authorities that can tell us which verses in the Qur'an are literally true?

Unfortunately there is none so it is just mine.
If you read the following verse 4 you can see a bit better to understand it -BUT only from today's technological availability. Edwin Hubble was the first scientist to notice the universe is expanding, by analyzing the shift in light spectrum. To do that he took series of pictures from the same location. Here in verse 4 we are asked to do the the same thing:

"Again turn thy vision a second time: (thy) vision will come back to thee dull and discomfited, in a state worn out." (67:4)

Also, people back then thought that the moon was the size of food plate, where even Al Ghazzali himself in his time centuries ago reminded the people that the sun and moon are not that small. But he did not have the tool to proof it. The clearest verse that pointing the misconception about the universe is in chapter 15: 14-15.

"Even if We opened out to them a gate from heaven, and they were to continue (all day) ascending therein"
"They would only say: "Our eyes have been intoxicated: Nay, we have been bewitched by sorcery."

The technological tools have made us understand many of them, yet we are still long way to go to understand the numerous passage in the Qur'an.

Happy reading. 

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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2012 at 4:29am
Originally posted by nospam001

As if to overcome any doubt, Sura 67 verse 3 points out that we see no cracks or rifts when we look up at the sky.

This syllogism would make sense supposing the sky were indeed a dome-shaped structure, as many civilisations used to believe until a few centuries ago.

However, as a rhetorical device, the very idea now seems quaintly misguided.

Given that the Qur'an contains no errors, should we therefore interpret this particular verse as merely figurative or poetic?

Are there any authorities that can tell us which verses in the Qur'an are literally true?


My friend I know that you are an agnostic but when you ask questions like this it tells me that you lack faith. Of course you do you are an agnostic.

Sahih International

[And] who created seven heavens in layers. You do not see in the creation of the Most Merciful any inconsistency. So return [your] vision [to the sky]; do you see any breaks? 67:3

Here is a tasfir (explanation) of this verse.

Who created seven heavens in layers, one above the other without any contact [between them]. You do not see in the Compassionate Ones creation, of these or of other things, any irregularity, any disparity or discordance. Then cast your eyes again, turn them toward the heaven: Do you see, in it, any fissure?, any cracks or ruptures?
Tafsir al-Jalalayn

Compare 67:3 with the following

Sahih International


It is Allah who erected the heavens without pillars that you [can] see; then He established Himself above the Throne and made subject the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term. He arranges [each] matter; He details the signs that you may, of the meeting with your Lord, be certain. 13:2

He created the heavens without pillars that you see and has cast into the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with you, and dispersed therein from every creature. And We sent down rain from the sky and made grow therein [plants] of every noble kind. 31:10

I would imagine that these are self explanatory. Don't you ever wonder why the sky doesn't fall down on you?
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Ron Webb
 
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2012 at 7:08am

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Don't you ever wonder why the sky doesn't fall down on you?

This is fascinating.  What do you mean by "the sky", Abu?  How high up is it, and what is it made of?

Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2012 at 8:02am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Don't you ever wonder why the sky doesn't fall down on you?

This is fascinating.  What do you mean by "the sky", Abu?  How high up is it, and what is it made of?

 
Sorry Ron I'm not able to answer that as you are far more intelligent than me, hence you are an atheist and I'm just a humble muslim.
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2012 at 8:35am
Well, I'm not sure what you think there is that ought to fall down on us, but just so you know: Voyager I is now more than 18,000,000,000 km "up" and hasn't encountered anything yet.  No sky, no firmament, no heaven, nothing that could have cracks in it.
Addeenul Aql Religion is intellect.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 13 October 2012 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Well, I'm not sure what you think there is that ought to fall down on us, but just so you know: Voyager I is now more than 18,000,000,000 km "up" and hasn't encountered anything yet.  No sky, no firmament, no heaven, nothing that could have cracks in it.
 
Well as you don't have an ounce of faith in your heart and as it void of anything you wouldn't understand what those verses mean.
 
I hate to think what you think about the following...but again does anybody care what you thnink?
 
 
Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib:

I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (sallallahu%20alaihi%20wa%20sallam) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them.

The Apostle of Allah (sallallahu%20alaihi%20wa%20sallam) looked at it and said: What do you call this? They said: Sahab.

He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that.

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