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Interfaith Dialogue
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2012 at 3:00am
Originally posted by nospam001

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Well you brought up the subject of concubine falsely when Maria was one of the wives of the Prophet (pbuh).The scholars didn’t seem to be beating around the bush on this point so I assumed that it was not a contentious matter. However, there are people who clearly disagree so I sincerely regret my ill-advised use of the c-word. It had zero relevance to my original question, as I was careful enough to say in the very next sentence - and in several posts since then.
Btw I've seen your kind before. When they first join the a site, they are ever so polite and ask "oh is it ok of I ask this question?" then they say things like "my wife and kids are Muslims" to gain trust, then the 'real' reason comes out why they are here. It is to sow doubt and to defame and to slander.
If all I wanted was to 'sow doubt and to defame and to slander' then there would be more effective ways than posting bland questions on this site.  Yes, my later questions are more direct, but if you perceive any hostility on my part then I guess we’ll just have to agree to differ on that. What can I do to convince you that I’m not lying? (Without revealing my daughters' identities. Please.)
 
Which begs the question why would a Muslimah marry a kufr? This is against the commands from the Holy Qur'an.
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Quote nothing Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2012 at 11:41am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Which begs the question why would a Muslimah marry a kufr? This is against the commands from the Holy Qur'an.

Bro, let him be, his being is not important to us. I still don't know where the links of these subjects to start with. I start have a feeling maybe those mufassirin which he said he relied upon were wrongly linked up the verses. The same thing happened with the famous Jalalain, where Salman rushdie got the idea for his "Satanic verses".

Originally posted by nospam001

The scholars didn’t seem to be beating around the bush on this point so I assumed that it was not a contentious matter

Can you please point it to the online tafsir, or if you don't mind can you link the verses clearly with their reasons? Sorry I am still some kind of lost here.


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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2012 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by Nothing

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Which begs the question why would a Muslimah marry a kufr? This is against the commands from the Holy Qur'an.
Bro, let him be, his being is not important to us.
My being thanks you for the support. But seriously folks, Abu has raised an interesting question which I am happy to discuss - in an entirely separate thread, of course.
Originally posted by Nothing

Can you please point it to the online tafsir, or if you don't mind can you link the verses clearly with their reasons? Sorry I am still some kind of lost here.
Normally I would. However, in this case, by citing tafsir about Maria I would only be helping to divert attention away from my original question.

You acknowledged earlier that some of the wives were upset, and for an understandable reason. I take it you are not asking me for clarification on those key points.
Originally posted by Nothing

Mary gave him a son by the name Ibrohim. That was the reason he stopped by her house more than agreed, not for sex but to visit his son. But the other wives still did not like it regardless.
It would save time supposing someone could refer back to my short narrative as posted on 23-Oct and point out which specific elements appear to be incorrect. When doing so, please remember to substitute the word 'wife' in place of 'concubine'.
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2012 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by nospam001

It would save time supposing someone could refer back to my short narrative as posted on 23-Oct and point out which specific elements appear to be incorrect. When doing so, please remember to substitute the word 'wife' in place of 'concubine'.
 
I think we already answered your question. If you missed it then here it is again.
 
Narrated 'Aishah:
 It was narrated that 'Aishah said: "The Messenger of Allah did not die until Allah permitted him to marry whatever women he wanted."

Reference : Sunan an-Nasa'i 3205
In-book reference : Book 26, Hadith 10
English translation : Vol. 4, Book 26, Hadith 3207
 
The Prophet (pbuh) was given special privileges by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala because he was a highly regarded slave of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. The Prophet (pbuh) was to fulfil an important mission for mankind, also note that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala forgave his past and future sins.
 
If the Prophet (pbuh) was showing favouritism towards a wife that is because he was a human being and had all the faults of a human being. If you read his hadiths you will seee that time and again he reminds us that he was just a human being like you and me and prone to mistakes like you and me.
 
Btw I don't know if you know but some of the wives, especially the older ones gave up their rights on visits by the Prophet (pbuh) so that he can spend time with whomever he wanted to. Again read the hadiths to get the full picture.


Edited by Abu Loren - 07 November 2012 at 11:20am
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2012 at 3:09am
Assalamu alaikum.

I have stopped discussing in this thread and others because there is insincerity from some members who want to understand Muhammad and that some Muslims give a distorted explanation. It is to be understood that understanding Muhammad begins with understanding what was revealed before him. It is not the responsibility of the follower of Muhammad to make one believe in him. I, want to be told what made Noah, Abraham, Isaac and others believed in Allah and obeyed His commands. The same signs are in the soul of all of us. They are present today. Allah says that he created all of us as believers. It is our parents that make us believers of otherwise.
It is wrong to portray Muhammad as having committed a sin because no one can ever pin point such sin. The Bible explains that it is the sinless that Allah Trusts and appoints as leaders. That was the reason behind the killing of the first born children and the appointment of the Levi tribes as those to hold the Torah. Prophet Jonah sinned but that was a lesson, likewise Solomon.
Allah refers to Muhammad on issues that are very serious and not that he has committed that offense. It was only during the time of Muhammad that honor, protection and rights were given to women. We should not forget that Surayya the wife of Amr was the first female martyr. The remarks of Amr ibn Al-As to the Negus king: "We use them, buy them sell them and discard them" reveals the position of females before. Allah addressed mankind to be extremely lenient to women. They can easily be broken. The last words of Muhammad was: your women your women.  Secondly the Shari'a like the previous ones was not based on arbitrariness, but on cause and effect. For every action there must be a reaction. For example why did Allah command Moses to throw a twig in the water at Morah?  When the Levi clan finally left Madina in 6 A.H, the Shari'a seized because of the absence of a cause- the Levi clan.
The world is certainly ignorant of the Scriptures. Its knowledge like empirical knowledge is the only way to across and mend our problems. Did those who read the book in website: sbpra.com//allamadrsanisalihmustapha failed to understand the continuity of the Message?  
Everything has been explained. It is better we refer to such explanations rather than explaining the Sharia based on our inexperience, not as witness to its foundation and consolidation, but on our ignorance and bias.
Let us stop joking and insulting the purpose and design of this forum. Let us leave those who want to joke do so without assisting them. Assisting and inclining  them is a sin.

Friendship.


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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2012 at 3:18am
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

I have stopped discussing in this thread and others because there is insincerity from some members who want to understand Muhammad and that some Muslims give a distorted explanation. It is to be understood that understanding Muhammad begins with understanding what was revealed before him. It is not the responsibility of the follower of Muhammad to make one believe in him. I, want to be told what made Noah, Abraham, Isaac and others believed in Allah and obeyed His commands. The same signs are in the soul of all of us. They are present today. Allah says that he created all of us as believers. It is our parents that make us believers of otherwise.
It is wrong to portray Muhammad as having committed a sin because no one can ever pin point such sin. The Bible explains that it is the sinless that Allah Trusts and appoints as leaders. That was the reason behind the killing of the first born children and the appointment of the Levi tribes as those to hold the Torah. Prophet Jonah sinned but that was a lesson, likewise Solomon.
Allah refers to Muhammad on issues that are very serious and not that he has committed that offense. It was only during the time of Muhammad that honor, protection and rights were given to women. We should not forget that Surayya the wife of Amr was the first female martyr. The remarks of Amr ibn Al-As to the Negus king: "We use them, buy them sell them and discard them" reveals the position of females before. Allah addressed mankind to be extremely lenient to women. They can easily be broken. The last words of Muhammad was: your women your women.  Secondly the Shari'a like the previous ones was not based on arbitrariness, but on cause and effect. For every action there must be a reaction. For example why did Allah command Moses to throw a twig in the water at Morah?  When the Levi clan finally left Madina in 6 A.H, the Shari'a seized because of the absence of a cause- the Levi clan.
The world is certainly ignorant of the Scriptures. Its knowledge like empirical knowledge is the only way to across and mend our problems. Did those who read the book in website: sbpra.com//allamadrsanisalihmustapha failed to understand the continuity of the Message?  
Everything has been explained. It is better we refer to such explanations rather than explaining the Sharia based on our inexperience, not as witness to its foundation and consolidation, but on our ignorance and bias.
Let us stop joking and insulting the purpose and design of this forum. Let us leave those who want to joke do so without assisting them. Assisting and inclining  them is a sin.

Friendship.


 
Wa Alaikkum As'alaam
 
No offence but I can't trust somebody who puts the Prophet (pbuh) above Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. What I wrote above is in the Hadiths of the Prophet (pbuh). People like you give devine attributes to the Prophet (pbuh) when time and again he said that he was only a human being who made mistakes and YES who possibly sinned. Hence Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala revealed that all of his past and future sins are forgiven. The Prophet (pbuh) was just a man like you and me who ate, drank and slept and had sexual intercourse with his wives. There is nothing to be ashamed of for his actions because Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala accepte all of his actions.
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2012 at 5:39am
Assalamu alaikum.

I have no apology to offer to anyone who attempts to interpret the last revelation according to his ideas and fantasy. I had to learn Arabic although my ancestors were of Arab descent from Madina. My difference with other speaking Arabs is that I rely on the interpretation of the Qur'an according to the laid down standard. You believed that Muhammad committed a sin. Note that this is in your register and you have to account for it. I did not say so, and if Allah will ask me that question, I will tell Him that I have no proof from the history of Muhammad. If Allah will accuse Muhammad of sinning I have no objection.

Friendship.

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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2012 at 12:02am
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

I have no apology to offer to anyone who attempts to interpret the last revelation according to his ideas and fantasy. I had to learn Arabic although my ancestors were of Arab descent from Madina. My difference with other speaking Arabs is that I rely on the interpretation of the Qur'an according to the laid down standard. You believed that Muhammad committed a sin. Note that this is in your register and you have to account for it. I did not say so, and if Allah will ask me that question, I will tell Him that I have no proof from the history of Muhammad. If Allah will accuse Muhammad of sinning I have no objection.

Friendship.

 
If the Prophet (pbuh) didn't sin then why was his past and future sins forgiven?
 
Do not try to make the Holy Prophet (pbuh) into another Jesus (pbuh).
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