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Interfaith Dialogue
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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2012 at 3:07am
I'm sorry for tiptoeing so delicately around the subject, but I really don't want to cause offence. Hopefully there's someone else reading this thread who is already acquainted with these moral questions, and who can point me to an authority that settles the matter using clear and precise logic. I'll then be one step closer to accepting Islam.
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2012 at 5:41am
In my dealings with atheists, theists, agnostics, unbelievers and the downright criminals is that it is like you are talking to a brick wall as they have no faith to begin with. No matter how much you reason with them, they will find an excuse to rebuttle and rebuke because they did not understood in the first place.

No offence intended to any atheists, thiests, agnositcs and the downright criminals.
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2012 at 10:08am
nospamoo1, This surah basically deals with a woman's jealousy, and I think it would be helpful to pose your understanding of the verse and ask any clarifying questions you may have.  I can only assume from your hypothetical analogy that perhaps you don't understand the context of this verse, and the issue of making oaths to Allah in Islam.  One of the scholars of Islam once said, 'if I ask you to touch your ear, one would not expect that you would wrap your arm around the back of your head to reach your right ear using your left hand.'  Let's just keep it simple.
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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 10 October 2012 at 2:57pm

Thanks abuayisha. We do seem to be approaching a common understanding. Yes, Sura 66 deals with a woman's jealousy. More precisely it deals with her jealous reaction to certain acts and omissions by her husband. Those same acts and omissions are referred to in the sura but are not 'dealt with' - with one notable exception, namely the husband's effrontery in setting a limit on the special freedoms previously granted to him.

Trying to keep it simple I was assuming that the answer to my original questions would not depend on gender. Clearly not everyone thinks that way. In Tolstoy's Anna Karenina, for example, Count Vronsky observes a moral principle that "one must never lie to a man, but one may to a woman." He would have seen nothing wrong in rebuking a woman for feeling cheated, while condoning her husband's attempt to hide the truth from her. Indeed, maybe that is the norm and anything else is the work of Shaytaan.

God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2012 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by nospam001

I'm sorry for tiptoeing so delicately around the subject, but I really don't want to cause offence. Hopefully there's someone else reading this thread who is already acquainted with these moral questions, and who can point me to an authority that settles the matter using clear and precise logic. I'll then be one step closer to accepting Islam.


As'alaamu Alaikkum

If the reason for you in accepting Islam hangs on this answer then don't accept Islam, you will be accepting Islam for the wrong reasons. Accept it only if you truly love God and you truly believe that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed (pbuh) is His slave and Messenger. Also you must make an oath to yourself that you will pray at the stipulated times, give to charity, fast and go on pilgrimage when you can afford to do so.

Don't play silly games with your salvation.
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nothing
 
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Quote nothing Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2012 at 2:09pm
Surah 66 giving us picture about his life with his wives. Here we can see that Muhammad as normal human with weakness toward his wives, in contrast what we have been hearing all the time that he was tough and dominant husband. Read this in conjunction with this verse below and you will see the picture better.

"And you will never be able to be equal [in feeling] between wives, even if you should strive [to do so]. So do not incline completely [toward one] and leave another hanging. And if you amend [your affairs] and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah is ever Forgiving and Merciful." (4:129)


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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2012 at 2:35pm
Well certainly "simple" is relative, anyway, perhaps our Prophet's response was because of collusion, however there are several other instances of acts of jealously from his wife that he seemed to have taken lightly and in good cheer. I think with respect to rebuke and feeling cheated, men and women are equals.
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nospam001
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Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 19 October 2012 at 8:53pm
So far no-one has stepped forward to defend the moral correctness of the husband's actions. It seems like a very simple and clear-cut question, until one utters his name. That is when things suddenly get complicated, so I can totally understand people's difficulty with 'joining the dots'. Especially when we consider a few of the hadith that deal with untruthful behaviour, e.g. al-Bukhari, 33 & 1973.

As possible mitigating factors, it has been suggested above that perhaps the original 'promise' was made either 'lightly' (in jest) or under duress. Viewed in this way, the subterfuge that followed was a benevolent act, so that his dearest wife would be spared the unnecessary pain of feeling cheated.

I don't want to insult anyone by pointing to chapter and verse. If you find this approach too complicated then I suggest you choose a commentary of Sura 66 by any respected Muslim scholar, in any language. You'll soon have enough detail to fill in what I've left out. It's all in there, and the scholars evidently don't have a problem with it. This only reinforces the principle implied in the sura itself: that it doesn't matter what you say to your wife, if it stops her nagging. (But next time, be careful not to make a promise that is beyond your authority, okay?)

My daughters (both Muslims) have been taught there are no 'bad' questions. Is it really a 'silly game' for me to ask for clarification, on their behalf?
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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