Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Contracts & technical loopholes - what is Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 7 Next >>
Author Message
nospam001
Male Agnostic
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 October 2012
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 149
Quote nospam001 Replybullet Topic: Contracts & technical loopholes - what is
    Posted: 02 October 2012 at 7:54pm
Please help me with some moral guidance for this hypothetical scenario:

Suppose I promise something to you but later I discover a technical loophole that means my promise was invalid and is therefore not legally binding. Is it OK for me to start exploiting that advantage straight away, in secret, without telling you first?

If someone else finds out what I'm doing, can I make them promise not to tell you? Supposing you do hear about it and then feel 'cheated', would you deserve to be rebuked for failing to recognise the loophole yourself?

Are there any sura/hadith that clarify what is acceptable? For example, does the answer depend on other details not already specified above?

Edited by nospam001 - 02 October 2012 at 8:04pm
IP IP Logged
Friendship
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 24 August 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 870
Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 03 October 2012 at 2:18pm
Assalamu alaika. nospam001.
 
Since you are a male agnostic, I do not know how to explain what Muhammad said. Just to know that hypothetical situations are not part of the Sunna of Muhammad. Muhamamd and hence Islam respects all forms of submission to Allah. What is it in agnostism?
 
Friendship


Edited by Friendship - 03 October 2012 at 2:20pm
IP IP Logged
nospam001
Male Agnostic
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 October 2012
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 149
Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 03 October 2012 at 3:02pm
Thank you for your reply.

Although my scenario is hypothetical, the same actions do seem to be condoned in Sura 66 (Al-Tahreem). Supposing this is true - and it is consistent with several respected commentaries - then I'm wondering if that sets a precedent for others to follow, or if there is some other fatwa or piece of scripture that explains why it should not apply universally with the authority of both Qur'an and Sunnah.

An agnostic is simply someone who is unsure what to believe. Other than that, there's no set of beliefs or practices that define 'agnosticism'.
IP IP Logged
Friendship
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 24 August 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 870
Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 04 October 2012 at 10:20pm
Assalamu alaika nospam001.

I am extremely delighted by your honest comment. I will give the glad tidings of what Muhammad told his arch enemy his cousin/nephew Abu Jahl who was called Abu Hakeem ( the father of wisdom) before the beginning of revelation. Muhammad told him it is impossible that you do not understand the G-d of Abraham. We also read that Khalid ibn Walid confessed that at the beginning of revelation he did not put any interest and concern in  hearing what Muhammad was saying. He was then a young lad probably about 17 years old.
It is impossible for one not to be sure what to believe. It is not allowed in Islam to waste time and to talk to one outside the sphere he will understand Muhammad for every second is important. Please tell us your profession so that you will the sign that will make you sure to believe in Muhammad.

Friendship.
IP IP Logged
nospam001
Male Agnostic
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 October 2012
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 149
Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 04 October 2012 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Friendship

Please tell us your profession so that you will the sign that will make you sure to believe in Muhammad.

The hypothetical scenario above has nothing to do with my own profession as data analyst. I'm sorry if my second post didn't make that clear.

Are you saying an agnostic is someone who already believes in Islam - unconsciously - therefore there is no need to discuss further?
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
IP IP Logged
Friendship
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 24 August 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 870
Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2012 at 10:09pm
Assalamu alaika nospam001.

Sorry my brother. You can only deal with terrorism, Al-Qaeda and Taliban if you listen understand and help in establishing the true Islam that is the Sunna of Muhammad Rasulullah. Listen Muhammad calls and directs one to speak to one according to his baseline and mental capacity. I have already made it clear that Allah mentions infertility in the Qur'an. Muhammad did not mention the causes. But gave a lead to fusion of sperm and ova. I said, bring medical personnel from all walks of faith or what you call religion to mention the causes of infertility. Will they speak the same thing?
Data analysis is knew but probably close to epidemiology my field of study. Is it so that I can discuss on that line?

Friendship.
IP IP Logged
nospam001
Male Agnostic
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 October 2012
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 149
Quote nospam001 Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2012 at 5:07pm
My question is about Sura 66 and whether that particular form of tactical deception is condoned for all Muslims, or has it been excluded from sunnah by some other fatwa or piece of scripture.

I realise that it can be helpful and persuasive to use carefully chosen examples that your audience can relate to. However, this strategy can backfire if the specific details divert attention from the more general and abstract 'core' of the question. That's what I was trying to avoid in my original post, where I was careful not to mention Sura 66. The apparent precedent (given its documented context) is clear enough that one could use a simple analogy involving children without any loss of relevance, as far as moral guidance is concerned.

But if you think it will help, do feel free to draw on epidemiology. I'm always curious to learn...
God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
IP IP Logged
Friendship
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 24 August 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 870
Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2012 at 12:48am
Assalamu alaika. nospam001

First of all you have to put your coordinates correct.
You said earlier on: An agnostic is simply someone who is unsure what to believe. It seems you do not have an authority transcending through every matter. There are no basic facts evidences subjected to you as coordinates to stimulate you to think. Imagine this verse: Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing? The next verse says: So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them.....(Qur'an 19:67-68).

Sura 66 is a Madinan Sura attached to Sura 2. I cannot find anything leading to deception in the Sura.  Also note that your saying or understanding that: ... or has it been excluded from sunnah by some other fatwa or piece of scripture... is wrong and not accepted. There is no fatwa that obliterates the Sunna. This what the Wahabis and Salafis are confusing you with. Fatwa is actually an elucidation on the Sunna and never intends to be making a 'law'. 
Probably you do not understand what is 'epidemiology'. Epidemiology is to relate cause with incidents. The best example is that of tracing the cause of 'cholera' in London to a tap of water. That data is still valid today. Now who is the G-d of Abraham? Is he still the same G-d of one created from a male and a female? For what purpose was Abraham created?

Friendship.

IP IP Logged
Page  of 7 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com