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Message Icon Topic: Who are We ? (Revisited) Post Reply Post New Topic
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m.sumair
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 1:03am
Originally posted by CARINGHEART

I found that one line disturbing and out of sync too.
For another reason.
Here I thought this person was addressing condemning the violent of acts of those calling themselves Muslims and purportedly following the teaching of Muhammad and the Qur'an...
and then He throws in his (real intent?)... his real concern?
The concern is to condemn those who speak freely and not those who act horrendously.


Greetings Caringheart, it would have been very kind of you, if you had just read the complete thread and than have commented on my "real intent". To me it felt a bit rude, but Anyways Smile..my real intent is to condemn those who act horrendously, including the act of ill-speech/videos.

Originally posted by CARINGHEART

Has any man made measure ever in history worked to make a difference though?  or is God the only one who can bring about the change of hearts that is needed to drive people back to Him?  All through ancient history we have seen how the people continue to go astray and there is only one forthcoming solution to this problem.  Man has never been able to accomplish it on his own.
Though I agree... we must try... but peacefully.


Thumbs%20Up Surely the God is only one who bring change to the hearts and the honest follow-ship of the religion can bring about that change because God never mislead His servants.      
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:38am

Originally posted by m.sumair

@Ron, I never denied that holocaust ever happened (if thts wat u meant) and there was no intent to cause any discrimination, I wonder what were you thinking? My point is quite simple that when you are in Power, (weathr minority or majority) you tend to subjugate rights of others (weather minority or majority) either intentionally or unintentionally. So this whole talk of freedom of Expression is "good" as long as you talk against those not in power. When you dare to speak against those in power, against their injustice and chaos, than they will  banish you (the history is clear & so is present, from such acts).

You're right, and that is precisely why we need laws protecting freedom of expression.  As it has been said many times, if freedom of expression is to mean anything at all it must include freedom for speech that is unpopular or that we personally hate.  Speech that is popular and that we like obviously doesn't need protection.

So can I say, that you can get in trouble for spreading false information about a Prophet with the intent to promote hatred and discrimination, for instance We can ban you, restrict you from propagating such nonsense. (I personally don't think so because we are "others")

Absolutely.  If you claim that Muhammad had sex with a dog, you could probably get arrested, because it is a blatant lie with the clear intent of inciting hatred.  On the other hand, it is okay to say that he had sex with a nine year old girl (Aisha), because that is factually correct, or at least there is ample evidence to support it.  What you make of that fact is up to you.

And just for the record, truth is not an absolute defense against libel charges either, but it is at least a strong mitigating factor, depending on the jurisdiction.  Let's not get into the details of libel laws.
 
Ron you said :
Originally posted by RON WEBB

You could quite possibly get in trouble for repeating the above nonsense in bold, if you did so publicly enough and in a context implying hatred or animosity.

Now this is something that I am keen to comment. Me saying this nonsense in public will get me in trouble, while "they" saying nonsense against Prophet in public is a Freedom of expression. Don't you think its a double standards?

The phrase in bold was "They are in power, they rule banks and major economy."  This is factually incorrect.  It is a lie repeated over and over by anti-Semites to incite hatred and distrust of Jews.  You could say that Jews are disproportionately represented in the banking industry, which may be true for historical reasons, but their absolute numbers are simply too small to be "ruling" anything.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 10:51am
Originally posted by m.sumair



Greetings Caringheart, it would have been very kind of you, if you had just read the complete thread and than have commented on my "real intent".

Thumbs%20Up Surely the God is only one who bring change to the hearts and the honest follow-ship of the religion can bring about that change because God never mislead His servants.      


Greetings m.sumair,

I apologize and you are of course correct.  I did not remove the earlier post simply because I did want to say, or agree, that that one comment of yours did stick out like a sore thumb.  I guess much the same way my comment did. Embarrassed  Please accept my apologies.  I had hoped that my continuation would make the necessary amends.

Salaam,
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 5:52am

Assalamu Alaikum/Peace be upon you,

A comment about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has been made with regards to his relation with Aisha (RA). While there may be some disagreement with regards to the age of Aisha (RA) at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (peace be upon him), one thing is unanimously agreed by the scholars in Islam that the Prophet had an excellent relationship with his wives, and his marriage was in line with the prevalent traditions in those times. The excellent character of the Prophet has been greatly appreciated by many prominent non-Muslims as well.

I cannot go in details as it is not the topic of this thread.

Since the Muslims intensely love the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions, including Aisha (RA), a cordial and respectful discussion about these personalities can go a long way to develop mutual understanding and cooperation. 

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 10:56am
Originally posted by peacemaker

A comment about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has been made with regards to his relation with Aisha (RA).

I probably should have apologized in advance for that remark.  It was not my intent to offend, but rather to show how one could offend, while staying within the legal protection of freedom of expression.

You're right that Muhammad's marriage to Aisha would have been considered normal and acceptable within the context of his time and society.  I guess it is just another illustration of the fact that just because Muhammad did something or approved of something, that doesn't mean it is acceptable or advisable in all societies and for all time.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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m.sumair
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

I probably should have apologized in advance for that remark.  It was not my intent to offend, but rather to show how one could offend, while staying within the legal protection of freedom of expression.


Stern%20Smile Your "advance" apology would have been, if you had wrote this in your  previous Post.

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Muhammad's marriage to Aisha would have been considered normal and acceptable within the context of his time and society.  I guess it is just another illustration of the fact that just because Muhammad did something or approved of something, that doesn't mean it is acceptable or advisable in all societies and for all time.


Confused I wonder what are you trying to get at..So u are saying(as per your illustration) that marriage is not acceptable and advisable to societies but sex and per-marital affairs are for the well-being of the society...that's absurd..(maybe not for you).

You remembered I asked you a question that :
Originally posted by m.sumair

but than have u studied the life of Muhammad or have u heard about it by someone or somewhere bcoz hearing things means it could be out of context, personal opinion or it could be personal vandal.

And I have got the answer..I know now where is your opinion coming from, so you can now spare the rest of it.

Originally posted by Ron Webb

The phrase in bold was "They are in power, they rule banks and major economy."  This is factually incorrect.


It is not factually wrong or conspiracy theory, its a open secret. I wonder why a certain percentage of American people tax goes directly to Israel. The tax of Americans belongs to America..Is Israel part of America? Why each year a portion( in $ billion) of Israel Defense Budget is funded by America(in National Securities) ? Isn't America is hit by rescission and unemployment, Don't they have immediate concern for people instead of funding in Defense budget of Israel?     
     

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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 01 October 2012 at 10:11am
Originally posted by m.sumair


It is not factually wrong or conspiracy theory, its a open secret. I wonder why a certain percentage of American people tax goes directly to Israel. The tax of Americans belongs to America..Is Israel part of America? Why each year a portion( in $ billion) of Israel Defense Budget is funded by America(in National Securities) ? Isn't America is hit by rescission and unemployment, Don't they have immediate concern for people instead of funding in Defense budget of Israel?     


Greetings m.sumair,

Not wishing to be antagonistic here, but I have a genuine question;
Do you profess to know how it is that governments must be run?
Didn't Muhammad take taxes from certain people in exchange for services?
If U.S. sends money to Israel it must be for a purpose, for something they are receiving in return.  Perhaps added security in the world.  Do you profess to know about how all international exchange works?  Because I know I certainly can't make this claim, but I do know that I would wish to do what could be done to ensure that there would be no nuclear attacks made in the world.

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 01 October 2012 at 4:25pm
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 01 October 2012 at 4:17pm

Originally posted by m.sumair

I wonder what are you trying to get at..So u are saying(as per your illustration) that marriage is not acceptable and advisable to societies but sex and per-marital affairs are for the well-being of the society...that's absurd..(maybe not for you).

You're right, it's absurd; and you know perfectly well that's not what I meant, or you wouldn't have expected an apology for it.

It is not factually wrong or conspiracy theory, its a open secret. I wonder why a certain percentage of American people tax goes directly to Israel.

Probably for the same reason that an even greater percentage (in total) goes to various Muslim countries, notably including Pakistan.  Because war is big business, and big business (not the Jews) to a large extent controls the American government.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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