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Message Icon Topic: Who are We ? (Revisited) Post Reply Post New Topic
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m.sumair
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 9:05pm
@Ron, Lol..I object or not object :) the point is You cannot do this against jews. The Restriction is on, and to be frankly i want the same Restriction on this side.. I hope that u undestand or.. Do u get more confused ??
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 9:42pm
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m.sumair
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 9:54pm
@Nothing, i agree to ur post except that I 'wish' Muslims get beyond this Sunni Shia thing and be a one parctising Muslim.(anyways...just speaking my mind)

The ME attitude of Muslims and weak parctice of Islam make us vulnerable to the attacks on our identity. Thats what I said in my first post "Where are 'WE' ?" Why we lack in We attitude when we are Muslims. Who are We? we say, we are Muslims but still find hard to pull it together.

Edited by m.sumair - 24 September 2012 at 10:10pm
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2012 at 4:41am

Originally posted by m.sumair

@Ron, Lol..I object or not object :) the point is You cannot do this against jews. The Restriction is on, and to be frankly i want the same Restriction on this side.. I hope that u undestand or.. Do u get more confused ??

Thanks for that clarification.  Okay, so earlier you wrote:

Originally posted by m.sumair

Well talking about freedom and right of speech, I don't find it completely excriseble. You can talk about Islam either way.. fine, but than can you compose poetry or other literature against the atrocites of Jews in Palastian and than 'stay free' afterwards. Can you discuss Holocaust and go free. (a genocide ! I agree)

You're absolutely right that you can get into trouble for spreading false information about a minority group with the intent to promote discrimination, e.g. denying that the Holocaust happened.  So for instance:

They can ban you, restrict you, bcoz they can do it. They are in power, they rule banks and major economy..you can't speak against their feelings, and go free. But u can certainly do this against Islam, u suddenly remember all ur rights to be exercised.

You could quite possibly get in trouble for repeating the above nonsense in bold, if you did so publicly enough and in a context implying hatred or animosity.

On the other hand, you can certainly criticize or ridicule a minority, as long as you stick to the facts and as long as your purpose is not clearly to incite hatred and violence.  There was recently a great Broadway musical comedy called "The Book of Mormon", which mocks the religion of Mormonism, for instance.  Unfortunately I didn't get to see it myself, but I understand it was a big hit.  I have heard several of the songs from it and they are hilarious.  Would your proposed legislation ban this musical?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2012 at 11:12am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

You say "we" as if that one little word can encompass all Muslims.  It can't, or at least it shouldn't.  Before you can take "constructive measures" against the spread of violence and extremism within Islam, you need to stop thinking in terms of a unified "we", so that "you" peaceful Muslims can distance yourselves from "them", the extremists and radicals.

Also, I found this one sentence disturbingly out of step with the rest of your message:

Originally posted by m.sumair

Why we can't ask UN to pass Intrnational Law that no such disgusting act be done against any prophet and to any Reglious scripture.

You seem to want peace, but only on your terms.  That is not peace, but surrender.  If you truly want peace -- if you want the right to believe what you want and live as you choose -- then you must allow others to believe what they want and live as they choose.  That may mean that others will say and do things you find disgusting.  Too bad.  No one has the right not to be disgusted.



I found that one line disturbing and out of sync too.
For another reason.
Here I thought this person was addressing condemning the violent of acts of those calling themselves Muslims and purportedly following the teaching of Muhammad and the Qur'an...
and then He throws in his (real intent?)... his real concern?
The concern is to condemn those who speak freely and not those who act horrendously?
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2012 at 11:21am
Originally posted by m.sumair

...Asking UN to pass a Law is not just our terms. It is not the first time that the prophet personality is being humiliated. Lately, prophet Moses and prophet Jesus (may God have peace upon them) have been a subjuct of such mockery. People who hate religion are doing whatever they please, Publicly. My point is, freedom of speech is good but than each freedom come with limits.

Belief in different Religions, or not believing at all, is debatable. But making out mockery of any belief, is tripping over the line. One may disscus his belief/concern in a moral and ethical ways, but this is not even near to morality. If UN passes the Law to stop such actions than it will be for all Religions. Islam is not the first to get mocked. They have been doing this for sometimes, now (whoever they are).

Peace would come from mutual harmony, and things that distorts mutual harmony should be rectify. So the Laws shall be made and actions should be taken to rectify such things.


Ok, reading this I can agree with you...
un-Godliness has gotten out of hand and we would do well to put God back in the equation of human living, and this could be done by not allowing any mockery of any religion.
Has any man made measure ever in history worked to make a difference though?  or is God the only one who can bring about the change of hearts that is needed to drive people back to Him?  All through ancient history we have seen how the people continue to go astray and there is only one forthcoming solution to this problem.  Man has never been able to accomplish it on his own.
Though I agree... we must try... but peacefully.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2012 at 11:34am
Originally posted by nothing


You know from my experience, the willingness to give for others is the starting point of solid community. If you have seen in the hajj where the muslims who are supposedly in the top end of spiritual journey pushing each other to pray in the front row, and hijacking other people bus and tent is good enough information for me that many of us are very selfish people. It is the ME first before everything is the opposite of this teaching below here, thats why I can savely say that the muslims in general don't know what Islam is, let alone the non muslims:

Therefor have I warned you of the flaming Fire (92:14)
Which only the most wretched must endure, (92:15)
He who denieth and turneth away. (92:16)
Far removed from it will be the righteous (92:17)
Who giveth his wealth that he may grow (in goodness). (92:18)
And none hath with him any favour for reward, (92:19)



Greetings Nothing,
I'm sorry, and I know that many will find this offensive, but I agree with you...
the problem... for me... what I have seen in studying Islam... is preceisely what you say...
it is a 'me' message... It is all about doing for the purpose of what I will get...
It is very much geared towards a mindset of 'what will I get?' for doing what I do.
It does not put forth well a message of giving for the sake of giving...
or that giving is its own reward because you are serving God.  There is no message of Love.
It's all about what will I get... selfish ambition (which is from one other than God, opposed to God)
This is why I have not been able to accept the message of Muhammad as a message from God.
I will add that I am not through with my study,
and that I believe it is possible that something begun as not good can be made good, by God's willing hand(remember Joseph?), and man's discernment.  I do not know that Muhammad had wrong intent... just maybe wrongly guided.  And now many following his message are wrongly guided.  There is some good... some Truth included in the message... It is necessary for Islam's people, and its leaders, to extract the good... and leave what is not good.
Heart


Edited by Caringheart - 25 September 2012 at 11:43am
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m.sumair
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 12:39am
@Ron, I never denied that holocaust ever happened (if thts wat u
meant) and there was no intent to cause any discrimination, I wonder
what were you thinking? My point is quite simple that when you are in
Power, (weathr minority or majority) you tend to subjugate rights of
others (weather minority or majority) either intentionally or
unintentionally. So this whole talk of freedom of Expression is "good"
as long as you talk against those not in power. When you dare to speak
 against those in power, against their injustice and chaos, than they
will  banish you (the history is clear & so is present, from such acts).

So can I say, that you can get in trouble for spreading false
information about a Prophet with the intent to promote hatred and
discrimination, for instance We can ban you, restrict you from propagating such nonsense. (I personally don't think so because we are "others")

Ron you said :
Originally posted by RON WEBB

You could quite possibly get in trouble for repeating the above nonsense in bold, if you did so publicly enough and in a context implying hatred or animosity.


Now this is something that I am keen to comment. Me saying this nonsense in public will get me in trouble, while "they" saying nonsense against Prophet in public is a Freedom of expression. Don't you think its a double standards?

Smile And don't worry about my statement...I said that because than, we can have something common to share (the feel of nonsense being said)... 

I will say again, to imply the Emphasis that Freedom of Speech/Expression is good, it enables you to be a free man, but with each freedom there comes a limitation. Freedom without boundaries is worst than being imprisoned. You do pay care to what you express in private and in public, its a common human sense that implied in daily lives.
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