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m.sumair
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Topic: Who are We ? (Revisited)
    Posted: 21 September 2012 at 5:50am
     "see pt.7 on pg 4"

Now this question is been bothering me for sometimes now. I am confused at our behaviour, the way we do things, the excuses and sorrys we give. In first place, why we have to do such things that we ended up doing sorrys and excuses. Who are we ? Killing of innocents, destroying the properties and injuring many other, it is not even close to what Islam teaches us. If these acts are done by radicals of Islam than where is this mainstream Muslims. Why we havnt taken any constructive measures so that act of radicals get diminish.

We are Muslims. But than what has happened to us. We are we so weak and fragile, dispersed around the globe that we can't even form a uniformity on the situation at hand. There are around 57 Muslim countries and some significant population of Muslims living around the earth but we are still unable to properly condem the situation. Why we can't ask UN to pass Intrnational Law that no such disgusting act be done against any prophet and to any Reglious scripture.

Islam is a Religion for Peace and we are suppose to represent it...Although maintaing peace is a responsiblity of each human, but we Muslims have a prime responsiblity to promote and maintain the Peace. But unfortunetly our reality is far from what it should really be. What we have been taught by Islam, and look at what we are doing...so
Who are we ? Where are "WE" ?

Edited by m.sumair - 04 October 2012 at 5:13am
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 21 September 2012 at 10:12pm

You say "we" as if that one little word can encompass all Muslims.  It can't, or at least it shouldn't.  Before you can take "constructive measures" against the spread of violence and extremism within Islam, you need to stop thinking in terms of a unified "we", so that "you" peaceful Muslims can distance yourselves from "them", the extremists and radicals.

Also, I found this one sentence disturbingly out of step with the rest of your message:

Originally posted by m.sumair

Why we can't ask UN to pass Intrnational Law that no such disgusting act be done against any prophet and to any Reglious scripture.

You seem to want peace, but only on your terms.  That is not peace, but surrender.  If you truly want peace -- if you want the right to believe what you want and live as you choose -- then you must allow others to believe what they want and live as they choose.  That may mean that others will say and do things you find disgusting.  Too bad.  No one has the right not to be disgusted.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2012 at 9:12pm
Greetings Ron Webb,

Seprating "we" into "us" and "them", its easier said than done. Actually we are at a distance from such radical people. We donot own their actions, they maybe doing this in sheer ignorance or for other agenda (tht has nothng to do with Islam). But keeping a distance is not helping, they do what they want to do and we remain aside thinking/feeling bad about it...than what, they doit again ! and we still remain aside. We are unable to stop them. They sabotage the Religion internally 'Doing things in the name of Islam', but than what we are doing to stop this sabotage. (In my opinion) We have gotten weak in our parctices and teachings of Islam, but we have to cope up fast so that we can rectify this utterness. Its upto us to try n reduce these bad actions.

I say "we" to those who learn and parctise Islam, I never include "them" with "us", "they" normally USE the Religion, or are ignorant of it teachings.

Edited by m.sumair - 22 September 2012 at 9:16pm
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2012 at 9:22pm
...Asking UN to pass a Law is not just our terms. It is not the first time that the prophet personality is being humiliated. Lately, prophet Moses and prophet Jesus (may God have peace upon them) have been a subjuct of such mockery. People who hate religion are doing whatever they please, Publicly. My point is, freedom of speech is good but than each freedom come with limits.

Belief in different Religions, or not believing at all, is debatable. But making out mockery of any belief, is tripping over the line. One may disscus his belief/concern in a moral and ethical ways, but this is not even near to morality. If UN passes the Law to stop such actions than it will be for all Religions. Islam is not the first to get mocked. They have been doing this for sometimes, now (whoever they are).

Peace would come from mutual harmony, and things that distorts mutual harmony should be rectify. So the Laws shall be made and actions should be taken to rectify such things.
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2012 at 10:29pm

Originally posted by m.sumair

But keeping a distance is not helping, they do what they want to do and we remain aside thinking/feeling bad about it...than what, they doit again !

Keeping a distance from extremism, both physically and rhetorically, does help.  The participation of thousands of "mainstream" Muslims in the protest outside the embassy provided crucial "cover" for the attack by a relatively small number of extremists.  If the moderates had simply stayed home, the result might have been different.  At least, it would have been clear that the extremists represented only a small minority of Muslims.

People who hate religion are doing whatever they please, Publicly.

As is their right.  Again, if you have the right to say what you want about Muhammad, then so do we.  Frankly, I find many things that Muhammad said and did to be offensive; but I would never seek a law preventing you from repeating them, Publicly.



Edited by Ron Webb - 22 September 2012 at 10:30pm
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Quote m.sumair Replybullet Posted: 22 September 2012 at 11:40pm
:) You found many things to be offensive of prophet Muhammad...but than have u studied the life of Muhammad or have u heard about it by someone or somewhere bcoz hearing things means it could be out of context, personal opinion or it could be personal vandal.

Well talking about freedom and right of speech, I don't find it completely excriseble. You can talk about Islam either way.. fine, but than can you compose poetry or other literature against the atrocites of Jews in Palastian and than 'stay free' afterwards. Can you discuss Holocaust and go free. (a genocide ! I agree)

They can ban you, restrict you, bcoz they can do it. They are in power, they rule banks and major economy..you can't speak against their feelings, and go free. But u can certainly do this against Islam, u suddenly remember all ur rights to be exercised.
FREEDOM of Speech..
AmaZing..

Edited by m.sumair - 23 September 2012 at 12:06am
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2012 at 9:17am
I'm not sure what you are saying.  Are you in favour of free speech, or not?  You seem to object to restrictions on criticism of the Jews in Palestine, or in discussing the Holocaust, and yet you advocate similar restrictions when it comes to criticism of Islam. Confused
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Quote nothing Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2012 at 10:51am
Originally posted by m.sumair

Who are we? Killing of innocents, destroying the properties and injuring many other, it is not even close to what Islam teaches us. If these acts are done by radicals of Islam than where is this mainstream Muslims. Why we havnt taken any constructive measures so that act of radicals get diminish.

There is no leadership in the Sunni camp, and in this camp each group has king on their own with the appetite of publicity and recognition. And each king will never go down no matter what happen. The Shiah which has a leader seems working much better, where adventurism by mini kings refrained.

Islam is a Religion for Peace and we are suppose to represent it...Although maintaing peace is a responsiblity of each human, but we Muslims have a prime responsiblity to promote and maintain the Peace. But unfortunetly our reality is far from what it should really be. What we have been taught by Islam, and look at what we are doing...so
Who are we ? Where are "WE" ?

You know from my experience, the willingness to give for others is the starting point of solid community. If you have seen in the hajj where the muslims who are supposedly in the top end of spiritual journey pushing each other to pray in the front row, and hijacking other people bus and tent is good enough information for me that many of us are very selfish people. It is the ME first before everything is the opposite of this teaching below here, thats why I can savely say that the muslims in general don't know what Islam is, let alone the non muslims:

Therefor have I warned you of the flaming Fire (92:14)
Which only the most wretched must endure, (92:15)
He who denieth and turneth away. (92:16)
Far removed from it will be the righteous (92:17)
Who giveth his wealth that he may grow (in goodness). (92:18)
And none hath with him any favour for reward, (92:19)

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