Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Did God turn his back on Israel and Islam? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 11 Next >>
Author Message
honeto
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2397
Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 12:56pm
The funny thing about the Bible account is that when Isaac was born Ishmael was already 14 years old. While the Bible portrays Ishmael as a small child while in those days a 15 year old man was an..adult!
"And Abraham arose early in the morning, and he took bread and a leather pouch of water, and he gave [them] to Hagar, he placed [them] on her shoulder, and the child, and he sent her away; and she went and wandered in the desert of Beer sheba."
"And the water was depleted from the leather pouch, and she cast the child under one of the bushes"
"
Rise, pick up the lad and grasp your hand upon him, for I shall make him into a great nation."

Also remember to add a couple of years for Isaac weaning period! "And the child grew and was weaned, and Abraham made a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned." So that makes Ishmael at least 16 years of age!!!!!!!!!

So how many problems we will have to deal with in the Bible?
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 24 January 2013 at 1:03pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2316
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by honeto


and what is this mistreatment of Isaac by Ishmael, from where do you get that?
Hasan
Originally posted by Caringheart


I can answer in part;

Originally posted by honeto


CAringheart and others,
read the last line, it does not tell anything like what you say that God turned his back, instead it says what it says, just read it loud. And this is for those of your who take Bible as pure word of God. At least believe that.
Hasan


Well for myself I never did say that God turned His back on Ishmael.  On the contrary I said, "He has his part to play."

I was only answering your question, i.e.
and what is this mistreatment of Isaac by Ishmael, from where do you get that?
Hasan


Edited by Caringheart - 24 January 2013 at 2:50pm
IP IP Logged
Kish
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 237
Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 8:02pm
Hasan, you haven't stated any problem yet. You are still grasping for straws, the fact still remains the same as I have stated before and shown. Ishmael was NOT part of the covenant, he never was.

No wonder he is NOT stated, even in the Quran as the child that was to be sacrificed! The Bible rightly stated Isaac.
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2316
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2013 at 7:08am
Kish,

I don't think we can rightly say that God turned His back on Ishmael.  God did say that Ishmael too would become a mighty nation, or people.
The Hebrew scriptures give us a limited glimpse of God's plan for Ishmael and those mighty people.

Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”

11 The angel of the Lord also said to her:

“You are now pregnant
    and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
    for the Lord has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
    his hand will be against everyone
    and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
    toward all his brothers.”

11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”

God makes His covenant with Isaac but He doesn't exactly turn His back on Ishmael.  In fact God comes to save Ishmael and Hagar when they are in need of water, and He leads them to a land where they can live, doesn't He. 

20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

Ishmael factors into God's plan as well.  He has his part to play.

I have thought it odd, or interesting, that the Hebrew scriptures were the only  record of Ishmael and he seems to have disappeared from the radar after leaving Abraham.  Until Muhammad, it seems no one spoke of an Ishmael, after what was written in the Hebrew scriptures.



Edited by Caringheart - 27 January 2013 at 11:49pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2316
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2013 at 7:20am
I have just gone back and read the opening of this thread and I would say this;

the people of Israel turned their backs of God... or some of them did... I would certainly say there are those today who either, never lost their way, or found their way back.
and the people of Ishmael obviously forgot God as well, since they established the Kabba and idol worship... but then there were those who chose to follow Muhammad and believe in the one God again.

So does this mean God turned His back on them?

There are people in all faiths that have turned their back on God, but has God turned His back on them, or does God still invite His lost children to come to Him?  Does God wish for any of His creation to be lost, or does He offer every hope and every chance of salvation?
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Kish
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 237
Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2013 at 10:01am
Originally posted by caringheart

So does this mean God turned His back on them?


Them as in who, Israel and Islam or neither one? God has kept his promise that they become a mighty nation. However, his covenant was broken. It was only if they kept his covenant that he would continue to be with them as a nation. 
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2316
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2013 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by caringheart

So does this mean God turned His back on them?


Them as in who, Israel and Islam or neither one? God has kept his promise that they become a mighty nation. However, his covenant was broken. It was only if they kept his covenant that he would continue to be with them as a nation. 


Hi Kish,

How many times did God say;
"I will never leave you, nor forsake you"

I am saying that it is not God who turns His back on any of His creation...
He is always inviting us to come to Him.

It is people who turn their back on God, and cause their own selves to lose His blessings.

God will never turn His back.
"Knock and the door will open, seek and you will find, ask and you will be given"

God will allow things to befall us though, when we turn our backs on Him.  He will not intervene if we are not seeking Him.

But He doesn't turn His back, does He?
Isn't He always waiting there with open arms 'if we will but turn and seek His face'? Heart

Blessings to you,
Caringheart

44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the Lord their God.

45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.




Edited by Caringheart - 28 January 2013 at 10:21am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
honeto
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2397
Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 04 February 2013 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Kish

Hasan, you haven't stated any problem yet. You are still grasping for straws, the fact still remains the same as I have stated before and shown. Ishmael was NOT part of the covenant, he never was. No wonder he is NOT stated, even in the Quran as the child that was to be sacrificed! The Bible rightly stated Isaac.

and contradicted. Read the details before. According to the Bible if any is addressed as "your only son" at any time would be before the birth of Isaac. So there you have it, the fact.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 11 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com