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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Did God turn his back on Israel and Islam? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 26 September 2012 at 7:43am

Originally posted by Friendship

Thus Allah described those whom He took covenant with but broke that covenant as Christians.

First and foremost, Allah is nowhere associated with the children of Israel, not even Ishmael or Hagar. The first to associate Allah with the children of Israel was only Muhammad, not the prophets of the Holy Scriptures.

The Quran is the first book for Muslims so it would credit everything in favor of Islam and discredit everything not in favor of Islam. However, you will not see anything in the Gospel (Injil) that says the covenant for Christians was broken but that the God of Abraham, Jehovah favored them.

That is why no other group since the death of Jesus Christ and his 12 disciples were able to perform GREATER miracles in front of many eye-witnesses to show and prove they had the backing of God, much like Moses and the prophets after him. Not ONE miracle performed since then by ANY other group of people on earth has any man seen since the first Christians, starting with Christ Jesus have performed Greater Miracles. That’s proof of God’s Holy Spirit!    

All these other leaders and groups since then who profess to have supposedly performed miracles don’t even come close OR do not even have any eye-witnesses as proof to confirm it really happened! All they have is that person saying trust me because I spoke to the angel Gabriel and I was told to recite, no eye-witnesses no evidence or proof no nothing.

Originally posted by Friendship

So what is the use of telling you what Allah says?

To help me understand and see if it is consistent to what he has been saying all along, God does not lie. If it is not consistent with the Holy Scriptures that presents a serious problem and the Scriptures takes precedent, why?

Galatians 1:8    

8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed

1 Corinthians 1:18

 For the message of the cross (stake) is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 8:41am
Originally posted by Kish



This is really embarrassing!

Edited by Abu Loren - 27 September 2012 at 8:42am
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 9:26am
Assalamu alaika Kish.
 
 
Arabic language and its application or usage in the Message brought by Muhammad is a language full of meaning in definition explanation description. It is however limited to the understanding and description by the Arabs.
Islam in the Arabic means 'submission, resignation, reconciliation (to the will of Allah). Al-Islam means the submission of submission, the era of submission, those who submitted are called Muslims.
Islam does not carry the meaning you ascribed to it and what the followers of Muhammad accept due to their lack of seriousness and faith.
Kish, I respect the children of Israel for they also fight against adultering the Islam Allah sent to them. The Torah Resources International said:

The Hebrew word, torah (תורה), is derived from a root that was used in the realm of archery, yareh (ירה). Yareh means to shoot an arrow in order to hit a mark. The mark or target, of course, was the object at which the archer was aiming. Consequently, torah, one of the nouns derived from this root, is, therefore, the arrow aimed at the mark, The target is the truth about God and how one relates to Him. The torah is, therefore, in the strict sense instruction designed to teach us the truth about God. Torah means direction, teaching, instruction, or doctrine. We should note that the usual translation of this word as law is not quite accurate. One of the most common ways that torah (תורה) is rendered in the Septuagint (LXX) is by using the word nomosv, nomo?. The Greek word nomos, however, has a variety of uses, among which, to be sure, is law, but it is certainly not limited to law. Following the precedent set by the LXX, the Newer Covenant Scriptures consistently render the Hebrew torah by the term nomos. This is where things begin to become confusing.

It is unfortunate that the Muslims are not taking note of this confusion created by allowing Greek to be the dorminat language of translating the Qur'an. Yusuf estes was insulted and denigrated by that ignorant body of the followers of Muhammad who coiled themselves as ahl-al-sunna when he said that the Real Qur'an is with Allah. I do not bother. Certainly the translated Qur'an in English language is full of errors!  I regret Yusuf estes bowing to their pressure! Please do not count me with them.
The followers of Muhammad have 140,000 books in one called the'Glorious holy Qur'an'.
You either agree to use our correct terminology which agrees with the original Message of Moses (Torah) or please for the sake of tolerance, assimilation, integration do not comment on the Islam taught practised and explained by Muhammad Rasulullah. PLEASE DO NOT ASSICIATE ME WITH TERRORISTS AND PRECIPITATORS OF EVIL-DOING.
Kish! If Allah described the Written and Oral Law to fit into the way of life of Ishmael there is no iota of truth in you prodding the children of Israel to reject Muhammad Rasulullah. Who was described as an 'ARCHER' in the Torah? Allah did not use that word to describe the 'Shari'a'of Muhammad because the Arabs were normads and posturalists. Shari'a means way to the watering place. Tell me the most appropriate way to appeal to the Arabs and invite them to understand Muhammad? Is water not the most valuable maaterial to a normad? Was this not what Allah tested Abraham with Abimelech? Why accusing of Allah of telling lies and inconsistencies?
Kish! It is time you submit for this is the only way to avert the events of 1930's - depression! What evidence are you waiting from Allah?
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2012 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by kish

First and foremost, Allah is nowhere associated with the children of Israel, not even Ishmael or Hagar. The first to associate Allah with the children of Israel was only Muhammad, not the prophets of the Holy Scriptures


Please show me where Ishmael, Hagar or any of his sons submitted to God.
Please show me where Moses and Abraham faced the east when praying.
Please show me where Muhammad came in the name of YHWH where as Jesus did.

(John 5:46) In fact, if YOU believed Moses YOU would believe me, for that one wrote about me.

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him.

(John 5:46) In fact, if YOU believed Moses YOU would believe me, for that one wrote about me.

(Luke 24:44) He now said to them: “These are my words which I spoke to YOU while I was yet with YOU, that all the things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms about me must be fulfilled.”

(John 1:45) Philip found Na·than′a·el and said to him: “We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote, Jesus, the son of Joseph, from Naz′a·reth.”

(Acts 26:22) However, because I have obtained the help that is from God I continue to this day bearing witness to both small and great, but saying nothing except things the Prophets as well as Moses stated were going to take place,

Deuteronomy 19;15   . . .At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.

Where in the Quran is Muhammad's 2 or 3 witnesses to confirm his message? Or did Muhammad put the LAW of Moses to the side for his own benefit?

That is the LAW of the Torah!!!!! Now is time for TRUE SUBMISSION!!!!!

Take heed to what you are reading!!!!!!

Therefore produce fruits that befit repentance. And do not start saying within yourselves, ‘As a father we have Abraham.’ For I say to YOU that God has power to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9 Indeed, the ax is already in position at the root of the trees; every tree, therefore, not producing fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire -
Luke 3:8-9

Peace,

Kish


Edited by Kish - 28 September 2012 at 8:16pm
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2012 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by Kish

Originally posted by kish

First and foremost, Allah is nowhere associated with the children of Israel, not even Ishmael or Hagar. The first to associate Allah with the children of Israel was only Muhammad, not the prophets of the Holy Scriptures


Please show me where Ishmael, Hagar or any of his sons submitted to God.
Please show me where Moses and Abraham faced the east when praying.
Please show me where Muhammad came in the name of YHWH where as Jesus did.

(John 5:46) In fact, if YOU believed Moses YOU would believe me, for that one wrote about me.

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him.

(John 5:46) In fact, if YOU believed Moses YOU would believe me, for that one wrote about me.

(Luke 24:44) He now said to them: “These are my words which I spoke to YOU while I was yet with YOU, that all the things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms about me must be fulfilled.”

(John 1:45) Philip found Na·than′a·el and said to him: “We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote, Jesus, the son of Joseph, from Naz′a·reth.”

(Acts 26:22) However, because I have obtained the help that is from God I continue to this day bearing witness to both small and great, but saying nothing except things the Prophets as well as Moses stated were going to take place,

Deuteronomy 19;15   . . .At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.

Where in the Quran is Muhammad's 2 or 3 witnesses to confirm his message? Or did Muhammad put the LAW of Moses to the side for his own benefit?

That is the LAW of the Torah!!!!! Now is time for TRUE SUBMISSION!!!!!

Take heed to what you are reading!!!!!!

Therefore produce fruits that befit repentance. And do not start saying within yourselves, ‘As a father we have Abraham.’ For I say to YOU that God has power to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 9 Indeed, the ax is already in position at the root of the trees; every tree, therefore, not producing fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire -
Luke 3:8-9

Peace,

Kish


Well then Moses (S) spoke of him then you believe he is a prophet; end of story! TRUE SUBMISSION!!!

FOR ONCE YOU RECOGNIZE THE TRUTH!
(...AT THE MOUTH OF TWO WITNESS OR AT THE MOUTH OF THREE WITNESS THE MATTER SHOULD STOOD GOOD!)


TNC


Edited by truthnowcome - 29 September 2012 at 9:12pm
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2012 at 10:00pm
Assalamu alaika Kish;
 
Kish listen to what Allah warned through Muhammad Rasulullah: Qur'an 5:57: O People of the Book! You have nothing as regards guidance  till you act according to the Torah, the Injeel and what has now been sent down from your Lord - the Qur'an.."
Deut 19:15 is another admonition in Qur'an 34:46; 'Say to them O Muhammad "I exhort you (Kish etc) to one thing only: that you stand up for Allah's sake in pairs and singly, and reflect within yourselves on the life history of Muhammad Rasulullah: there is no madness in your companion (Muhammad Rasulullah). He is only a warner to you in the face of a severe torment ( unemployment, recession, depression, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, tornado, katrina, earthquakes etc).
Kish, if the Torah have warned you against the calamities facing you, then you are responsible to yourself if you go AGAINST THOSE ORDINANCES.  You are part and parcel of Taliban and al-Qaeda. You do not benefit by turning a blind eye to the truth.  If Muhaammad tells you to stand by the Torah and the Injeel, it is your responsibilty to find contradictions, controverises in them and tell Muhammad and not Muhammad to tell you. If he tells you then know that Moses and Jesus must have told him for Allah must have been the One who told him. 
 
Friendship.
 
  


Edited by Friendship - 29 September 2012 at 10:03pm
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2012 at 6:30am


Originally posted by Kish

Please show me where Ishmael, Hagar or any of his sons submitted to God.
Please show me where Moses and Abraham faced the east when praying.
Please show me where Muhammad came in the name of YHWH where as Jesus did.


Like always, Muslims like to say and believe Muhammad was a prophet of God but are never able to answer simple questions, that alone
speaks for itself. Just because you believe it to be so does not make it true.  

Muslims like to say and believe Allah is the God of the Holy Scriptures and early prophets. NOT!! NO PROOF IT'S NOT TRUTH!!!  

Where is the evidence that Jesus was the Prophet that Moses spoke of?   

(John 5:46) In fact, if YOU believed Moses YOU would believe me, for that one wrote about me.

Deut. 18:18-20: “A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you [like Moses]; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him. And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name, I shall myself require an account from him.

(John 5:46) In fact, if YOU believed Moses YOU would believe me, for that one wrote about me.

(Luke 24:44) He now said to them: “These are my words which I spoke to YOU while I was yet with YOU, that all the things written in the law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms about me must be fulfilled.”

(John 1:45) Philip found Na·than′a·el and said to him: “We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote, Jesus, the son of Joseph, from Naz′a·reth.”

(Acts 26:22) However, because I have obtained the help that is from God I continue to this day bearing witness to both small and great, but saying nothing except things the Prophets as well as Moses stated were going to take place,

Deuteronomy 19;15   . . .At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses (His Disciples) the matter should stand good.


On the other-hand this is your proof?


Originally posted by truthnowcome

Well then Moses (S) spoke of him then you believe he is a prophet; end of story! TRUE SUBMISSION!!!


Oh, really? Who was the first witness, Moses? Friend, you cannot use Moses, he is the one that said it. You have to prove through other means that Moses was referring to Muhammad just as Jesus and others proved that Moses was referring to Jesus. Where in the Quran did Muhammad say it? Who's the second or third witness?
AGin, just because this is what you were taught and where lead to believe does not mean it to be truth. NO PROOF IT'S NOT TRUTH!!!  

In that case why not accept The Bab and or Baha'u'llah's message? The reason you do not accept them is the same reason why Islam is not accepted in the Holy Scriptures.
 
Any answers to  my basic questions? Don't run now, anyone please?


Edited by Kish - 07 October 2012 at 6:32am
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2012 at 7:22am
Originally posted by Friendship

Kish listen to what Allah warned through Muhammad Rasulullah: Qur'an 5:57: O People of the Book! You have nothing as regards guidance  till you act according to the Torah, the Injeel and what has now been sent down from your Lord - the Qur'an.."
...Qur'an 34:46; 'Say to them O Muhammad "I exhort you (Kish etc) to one thing only: that you stand up for Allah's sake


All self appointed prophets had said the samething when it came to their writtings and Muhammad is no different, sorry. But, here is another verse in the Quran that is wrong. Jesus did not send down the Gospel. I guess that mysterious and strange angel that forcibly and violently choked Muhammad got more things mixed-up again.
Tell us what 2 or 3 witnesses can confirm that really happened in the cave? Oh! There were no witnesses I forgot, right from the start Muhammad broke the Holy Law of the Torah AND his own word Let me quote you and the Quran - You have nothing as regards guidance  till you act according to the Torah . . . WHERE IS THE SUBMISSION? In name only.

NO PROOF IT'S NOT TRUTH!!!

So i'll leave everyone with this vital warning that was written over 700 years before the Quran by a TRUE Prophet who used God's name (YHWH) and spoke of Jesus as the Greater Moses - Ezekiel 13:3, 7 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah (YHWH) has said: “Woe to the st**id prophets, who are walking after their own spirit, when there is nothing that they have seen! Is it not an untrue vision that YOU men (Muhammad) have visioned (Cave of Hira) and a lying divination that YOU have said, when saying, ‘The utterance of Jehovah is,’ when I myself have spoken nothing?”’

Galatians 1:8 However, even if we or an angel (Gabriel) out of heaven were to declare to ​YOU​ as good news something beyond what we declared to ​YOU​ as good news, let him be accursed. - Of course we know it was not (Gabriel) Just because Muhammad said it was doesn't make it to be true, we want eye-witnesses which Muhammad did not have to ever confirm
that his message was truly from an angel or from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jehovah. 

Edited by Kish - 07 October 2012 at 7:25am
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