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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 3:51am
It takes decades to learn democracy. Germany first tried it in 1918. Democracy merely lasted 15 years then it became a total failure. But the second try after 1945 was a huge success. So it's very likely that Egypt's democracy will fail. It's clearly headed for theocratic fascism. So we need a second wave of the Arab Spring. The same is happening in Russia.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote JeddahBoy Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 5:18am
Originally posted by Matt Browne

It takes decades to learn democracy. Germany first tried it in 1918. Democracy merely lasted 15 years then it became a total failure. But the second try after 1945 was a huge success. So it's very likely that Egypt's democracy will fail. It's clearly headed for theocratic fascism. So we need a second wave of the Arab Spring. The same is happening in Russia.



But there are reasons for that.  Without the economic success of the Marshall Plan and denazification, who knows what would have happened?  Those Middle Eastern countries need help too.  In the form of education. 

I prefer democracy, but without a well-educated population - it's crap.  Singapore is authoritarian, but because the population is well-educated - you get success.  It takes time, but it is well worth the wait.     
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 6:01am
Originally posted by JeddahBoy

Without the economic success of the Marshall Plan and denazification, who knows what would have happened?  Those Middle Eastern countries need help too.  In the form of education. 

I prefer democracy, but without a well-educated population - it's crap.  Singapore is authoritarian, but because the population is well-educated - you get success.  It takes time, but it is well worth the wait.     


I totally agree. And I'm in favor of a new "Marshall Plan" for the Middle East. Yes, education should be priority number one. But, number two is investments. Now here's the problem. After WWII the Allied forces stayed in Germany to make sure the path toward democracy turned into a street and highway. Investments into a new totalitarian system doesn't make sense. Now who should pay for the Marshall Plan in Egypt and Tunisia? Saudi Arabia? They use their money to export theocratic fascism, not democracy. The US and EU? But Egypt just elected theocratic fascists who won't create a constitution worthy of a democracy? If the US and EU invested, the Muslim Brotherhood would use this Marshall Plan money to hire religious police that make sure every Egyptian woman wears a face veil and that Copts pay their jizya surcharge. They would use the money to promote their religious agenda. Innovation is seen as a threat. Germans elected democratic parties after the war, because they already existed before the war. Egypt does not have that tradition. So what can we do?

A good education system also takes time to establish. Singapore benefited from the UK. Egypt's education system is in a dismal state. Curiosity at school isn't rewarded. It gets punished. You'd need a whole set of new teachers with a modern mindset. But who will teach the teachers?

I expect the situation in Egypt get worse. Soon the first tourists will boycott the country. Who wants to have a good time in Sharia land? The Egyptian economy will crash. Maybe in time, the Egyptians will realize that the Muslim Brotherhood is the problem and not the solution.





Edited by Matt Browne - 04 December 2012 at 6:09am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
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Quote JeddahBoy Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 8:19am
Originally posted by Matt Browne



 Now who should pay for the Marshall Plan in Egypt and Tunisia? Saudi Arabia? They use their money to export theocratic fascism, not democracy. The US and EU? But Egypt just elected theocratic fascists who won't create a constitution worthy of a democracy? If the US and EU invested, the Muslim Brotherhood would use this Marshall Plan money to hire religious police that make sure every Egyptian woman wears a face veil and that Copts pay their jizya surcharge. They would use the money to promote their religious agenda. Innovation is seen as a threat. Germans elected democratic parties after the war, because they already existed before the war. Egypt does not have that tradition. So what can we do?

A good education system also takes time to establish. Singapore benefited from the UK. Egypt's education system is in a dismal state. Curiosity at school isn't rewarded. It gets punished. You'd need a whole set of new teachers with a modern mindset. But who will teach the teachers?



To be honest, I wouldn't focus on Egypt and Tunisia because the situation has not boiled over.  I would focus on Iraq and Afghanistan.  Clean slate. 

Yeah, it should be the Saudis to invest, being the center of Islam and all....but that's not gonna happen.  Maybe Qatar or Dubai?....

I'm just thinking...there has got to be some well-educated people from Egypt or Tunisia that care enough to lift their countries' up from this present state ....there are lots of Afghan expats who came back to their homeland...

And honestly, I would go there and teach if my country wasn't more important to me.  But as I wrote in my blog, the first American teachers in my country were American soldiers, before the Thomasites took over, so it's definitely possible for groups of people to just go to a different country and start teaching. 

All this is tough...but the human mind is capable of achieving great things.  There's a lot of crap in this world and it gets to us...but if we think of the good and focus on it...it's definitely worth fighting for.  Evil never triumphs.     
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2012 at 2:46pm
Good posts jeddaboy, and I'd say that the Philippines have gone through just about as much as anyone would wish to go through.  They've have tough times, yet they have made it haven't they?
Yes, education is key.
It is my understanding that at one time that was one of the strongest points in Afghanistan and among the Afghanistan people... before Russia came along and then when Russia was driven out the taliban drove out everything good which once existed there.


Edited by Caringheart - 04 December 2012 at 2:49pm
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Quote JeddahBoy Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2012 at 8:36am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Good posts jeddaboy, and I'd say that the Philippines have gone through just about as much as anyone would wish to go through.  They've have tough times, yet they have made it haven't they?
Yes, education is key.
It is my understanding that at one time that was one of the strongest points in Afghanistan and among the Afghanistan people... before Russia came along and then when Russia was driven out the taliban drove out everything good which once existed there.


We haven't made it yet...but we are getting there...coz now our president brings such positive energy even though I had doubts about him...

Just like the other countries, we have struggled with corruption...we have to own up to that...but it is hard when there are powerful countries waving money in front of our public servants' faces in order to favor them....and they stop thinking of their own people.  I don't think that happened to Malaysia, Korea, Singapore, and Japan as much as our countries.  We countries who are of strategic interest.  And it sucks being a war zone....

So change from the top is not going to work as long as they continue to get bribed by certain powers.  It has to be from the bottom.  It's much harder, but now with information technology we can make it happen. 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 05 December 2012 at 3:26pm
Hello jeddaboy,
I was sorry to see the news reports today of the Philippines and the typhoon.  Unhappy
I immediately thought of you.
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 16 December 2012 at 7:09am
Well, the clean slate of Afghanistan is threatened by the Taliban, which still has millions of supporters. Now the foreign troops are leaving. What could happen to the investments in education? Well, the first thing will be all schools for girls getting closed. And schools for boys will be mainly about memorizing the Qur'an and practicing Jihad. The Taliban need to shrink to the size of the neo-Nazis in Germany which consists of a couple of thousand dimwits which can be controlled. Will this happen?




Edited by Matt Browne - 16 December 2012 at 7:10am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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