IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The Embassy Attacks

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Matt Browne
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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 6:03am

Here's my view on the matter.

A religion that views insults as something worse than physical violence can't be the world's best religion.

A religion whose followers wish for the death of people of an entire country can't be the world's best religion.

A religion whose peaceful followers don't organize demonstrations against the behavior of their religion's violent followers can't be the world's best religion.

Where are the millions of peaceful Muslims participating in demonstrations, voicing their disapproval for the destruction of embassies and the attacks on policemen who were trying to protect the embassies?

An Egyptian-American Copt had become so upset about Muslims burning churches and killing Christians in Egypts, Nigeria and elsewhere that he was developing deeper and deeper hatred of Muslims (which is a very un-Christian thing). He created a silly, low-quality movie, deceiving the actors by changing the recorded dialogs. Before that he had committed other types of fraud and was convicted by American courts.

So why make such a big deal about this jerk and his immature behavior? Why would anyone take such a guy seriously? We should feel pity for him, not anger.

Hatred is never the answer. It is always the problem and one of the main causes of misery. Violence is not the answer. Peaceful dialog and mutual respect and the co-existence of different spiritual truths is.

Edited by Matt Browne - 20 September 2012 at 6:05am

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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abuayisha

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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 7:11am

Gosh Matt, notwithstanding the complete subjectivity of "the world's best religion" can it not be said that an institution is sound, however its adherent is flawed at times? Can we also agree that media bias exists throughout the world, and often times distorts perspectives? Indeed it is hoped that people of all faiths can join in mutual dialog, and respect for cultural differences, as well as historical injustices.

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BMZ

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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 8:19am

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Here's my view on the matter.A religion that views insults as something worse than physical violence can't be the world's best religion.A religion whose followers wish for the death of people of an entire country can't be the world's best religion.A religion whose peaceful followers don't organize demonstrations against the behavior of their religion's violent followers can't be the world's best religion.Where are the millions of peaceful Muslims participating in demonstrations, voicing their disapproval for the destruction of embassies and the attacks on policemen who were trying to protect the embassies?An Egyptian-American Copt had become so upset about Muslims burning churches and killing Christians in Egypts, Nigeria and elsewhere that he was developing deeper and deeper hatred of Muslims (which is a very un-Christian thing). He created a silly, low-quality movie, deceiving the actors by changing the recorded dialogs. Before that he had committed other types of fraud and was convicted by American courts.So why make such a big deal about this jerk and his immature behavior? Why would anyone take such a guy seriously? We should feel pity for him, not anger. Hatred is never the answer. It is always the problem and one of the main causes of misery. Violence is not the answer. Peaceful dialog and mutual respect and the co-existence of different spiritual truths is.

Here is something I wish to bring up.

The Western Christians think that the entire Christian world is like them. That is wrong.

The Copts in Egypt and the Christians in Africa, the European backyard (Serbia and others) India, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Philippines and other Eastern countries are a different breed.

They are backward, most are illiterate and volatile, just like the backward Muslims.

Produce a movie on Jesus making love with Mary Magdalene, show it to them and see the rage.

Watching a few hundred or a few thousand protesting does not show that the entire Muslim world was on the streets.

The point is that movie was deliberately made and it was not a one man job. Many Western Christians were involved.

A religion, whose followers can stoop so low, cannot be a religion at all. It can only be a mad Cult!

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

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Blake
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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 11:47am

I will agree with you on this, after having spent a short time in africa i could see.... in my opinion that the average Christian there seems to be much more
devout and has a great sense of modesty, respect for their elders in and out of their immediate family. I really admire those qualities.

But never the less, I can't speak for ALL of them, how could i possibly? And how can you label Western Christians as a group like that ? Perhaps you are just venting your hatred for the West.

If I was to point out actions of Islamic Terrorists in a conversation, I shure would not label the entire Islamic religion.

You say the followers of Western Christianity stooped so low to make this film ? how many ? five people? ten? twenty? fifty ? one hundred? would it take 100 to produce a Utube film of low grade?

So your saying this makes All Christians in the West a mad Cult? I don't know how you ...personally have the ability to know what MILLIONS of people are thinking .

Do you really have that ability?.... you must have powers that none of us regular people possess.

If a few people making a film makes a entire religion a mad cult then One could also make the same arguement about Islam if they chose too. Many examples can be found of crimes being commited in the name of Islam.
Does some radicals persecuting Christians in Lebannon make Islam a Mad Cult? ... even though the government there is trying to prevent it?

I see that what really divides people is miscommunication and misconseptions .. leaders who feed their people with this stuff as well.

I might agree with you to a point about the culture in the US which has become a permissive one. But we also have millions of good ones as well
who are trying their best to raise their families in a good way, to repect others regardless of their different beliefs.
If this wasn't so ... If the anti Muslim feelings you think we have really persisted then why do we allow Mosques to be built here? There is more religious freedom in the US for all the countries of the world than any Muslim country would allow.

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semar

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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 3:14pm

Interesting fact:

http://www.deliberation.info/

In order to understand the real motives and goals of the makers of Innocence, it is necessary to take a good look at the people who have, so far, been identified as the film’s authors and promoters.

The central figure in all this is reported to be one Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a 56-year-old Egyptian immigrant: although Nakoula presented himself in an interview with the Associated Press as “Sam Bacile,” a 56-year-old “Israeli-American” real estate developer, he is a Coptic Christian, a member of a persecuted minority in Egypt — and a convicted felon. Media reports portray him as the central figure in the making of Innocence: he denies this, and describes his job as arranging “logistics” for the film. Nakoula’s role seems to have been that of a facilitator — gofer — rather than “creative director,” and in any case he hardly seems the type to have originated the idea for the movie. Having been released from jail — where he was serving a sentence for bank fraud — barely a month before filming started, Nakoula was hardly in a position to undertake such a project. Chances are he was recruited by someone else, the real originator and driving force behind Innocence— but who is that someone?

Public records show a filming permit was taken out by “Media for Christ,” an outfit run by one Joseph Nasrallah Abdelmasih. His group sponsors Christian programming in Arabic, including “The Way,” a production that has featured such prominent Islamophobes as Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer. The Geller-Spencer collaboration goes back to the protests against the New York City “Ground Zero” mosque in which the duo achieved national notoriety: Nasrallah was one of the speakers at their rally. The idea for just such a movie as Innocence showed up on Geller’s blog in February, in a post entitled “A Movie About Muhammad: An Idea Whose Time Has Come.” Ali Sina, an ex-Muslim and board member of Geller and Spencer’s “Stop the Islamization of Nations,” exhorted Geller’s readers to support his movie project:

... more

http://www.deliberation.info/

Edited by semar - 20 September 2012 at 3:21pm

Salam/Peace,
Semar
The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full"
"1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 5:15pm

Originally posted by BMZ

The point is that movie was deliberately made and it was not a one man job. Many Western Christians were involved.

A religion, whose followers can stoop so low, cannot be a religion at all. It can only be a mad Cult!

The problem I have with your analysis is that it ignores the scale of the provocation, and the scale of the response.

There were probably only a couple of dozen people involved in making this video. ("Movie" gives it more credit than it deserves.) It was certainly offensive, but it harmed no one.

Now, compare that with the response, which involved tens of thousands of people and has resulted in more than thirty dead so far (and we're probably not done yet).

Or compare it even to the 9/11 attack, which was surely the ultimate provocation against the West. It was directly carried out by nineteen people, but with the direct support and assistance of thousands, probably including the Afghan government. It killed thousands of Americans and caused hundreds of billions of dollars in property damage.

So what was the response? Yes, there was outrage among non-Muslims, and not a little Islamophobia; and yes, the American government retaliated with open warfare, which IMHO was misguided but surely not surprising. But on an individual level, do you recall a single riot at an Afghan or Saudi embassy? I don't. Certainly nobody died in any anti-Muslim demonstrations that I heard about.

When the Muslim world is provoked, the response always far, far exceeds the provocation. I can think of nothing that could generate the level of mindless anarchy in the streets of the Western world that we routinely see in the Muslim world over utter nonsense. And if you don't believe this video is utter nonsense, then you haven't watched it.

Edited by Ron Webb - 20 September 2012 at 5:19pm

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 5:24pm

To address a few of the comments;

How come Muslims keep missing the point...
If Muslims want to defend the religion of Islam then they need to stand up and denounce loudly and clearly when this type of violence in the name of Islam occurs.
Until they can do that no one is going to have confidence int the religion of Islam as a religion of peace.
If it is a religion of peace then it needs to demonstrate that it is a religion of peace. Lip service means nothing. You can't just keep saying it is a religion of peace... you have to make it a religion of peace. The leaders and clerics of the religion have the duty to make it so.

I'm pretty sure I have heard the Pope denounce the actions of the film maker.
I'm positive that the American president, and secretary of state Clinton, have both denounced the film and the actions of those committing violence over it.
And yet, which is the greater offense... the making of an insulting film... or the killing because of it? Both are misguided actions but really which is worse?

And recent evidence seems to show that the violence on the embassies had nothing to do with this film anyway... it is only used as a cover.

Edited by Caringheart - 20 September 2012 at 5:28pm

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Caringheart

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Posted: 20 September 2012 at 5:31pm

Originally posted by BMZ

Produce a movie on Jesus making love with Mary Magdalene, show it to them and see the rage.

Again BMZ,
There is a movie just like that being made... blasphemous against Jesus...
however is anyone going to use it to cause violence?

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