IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: The Embassy Attacks

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BMZ

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Posted: 21 September 2012 at 2:18am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by BMZ

Produce a movie on Jesus making love with Mary Magdalene, show it to them and see the rage.

Again BMZ,There is a movie just like that being made... blasphemous against Jesus... however is anyone going to use it to cause violence?

Hello,

I write mostly on a forum, which is extremely hostile to Islam and the Muslims.

My point is simple. Make a movie of Jesus making love with Mary Magdalene.

And then watch the reaction and the fierce rage from the backward Christians of the backward Christian countries.

I do not write here frequently. So, if you do not hear from me, please know that I am very active somewhere else.

Thanks

Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 21 September 2012 at 3:51pm

It looks like there may be hope for Libya:

Attack on US in Libya fuels anti-militia backlash

By MAGGIE MICHAEL, Associated Press – 1 hour ago
BENGHAZI, Libya (AP) — Tens of thousands of Libyans marched to the gates of one of the country's strongest armed Islamic extremist groups Friday, demanding it disband, as the attack that killed the U.S. ambassador and four other Americans sparked a public backlash against militias that run rampant in the country and defy the country's new, post-Moammar Gadhafi leadership.

...
The militias, a legacy of the rag-tag popular forces that fought Gadhafi's regime, tout themselves as protectors of Libya's revolution, providing security where police cannot. But many say they act like gangs, detaining and intimidating rivals and carrying out killings. Militias made up of Islamic radicals are notorious for attacks on Muslims who don't abide by their hardline ideology. Officials and witnesses say fighters from one Islamic militia, Ansar al-Shariah, led the Sept. 11 attack on the Benghazi consulate.

...
The march was the biggest seen in Benghazi, Libya's second largest city and home to 1 million people, since the fall of Gadhafi in August 2011. The unprecedented public backlash comes in part in frustration with the interim government, which has been unable to rein in the armed factions. Many say that officials' attempts to co-opt fighters by paying them have only fueled the growth of militias without bringing them under state control or integrating them into the regular forces.

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Ron Webb
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Posted: 21 September 2012 at 3:53pm

I wish I could say the same for Pakistan, however:

Pakistan hit by deadly riots over anti-Muslim film

By Sebastian Abbot on September 21, 2012

ISLAMABAD (AP) — Pakistan's "Day of Love for the Prophet" turned into a deadly day of gunfire, tear gas and arson.

Thousands angered by an anti-Muslim film ignored pleas for peaceful rallies and rampaged in several Pakistani cities Friday in battles with police that killed 19 people and touched off criticism of a government decision to declare a national holiday to proclaim devotion for the Prophet Muhammad.

...
Analysts accused the Pakistani government of pandering to these extremists by declaring Friday to be an official holiday — calling it a "Day of Love for the Prophet." Officials urged peaceful protests, but critics said the move helped unleash the worst violence yet caused by the film, titled "Innocence of Muslims."

Well, what did they expect? Was this just sheer government incompetence, or were they trying to trigger further violence?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.

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Friendship

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Posted: 21 September 2012 at 10:41pm

Assalamu alaikum.

Well, there will never be an end to slaughter and destruction in the world once the West failed to understand what Islam is actually all about. The West refused to understand the illiteracy level of the followers of Muhammad. It is just like a physician giving toxic drugs to a patient with incurable liver disease. Each disease has its remedy is a well known expression by early Muslim scholars. Is the teaching of Jesus son of Maryam not part of the way and means we can live with one another? Muhammad was principally sent to settle the dispute between the followers of what Moses truely taught practised and what was distorted twisted and changed. There is nothing called Islam other than that.

But no one listens and believes in that.

It is good that Ron and others read to understand G-d, but they must rely on what the messengers say and not introduce ideas that are outside the realm and spirit of revelation. Freedom of speech and right of expression should be limited to improoving the lots of the citizenry. I do not have to repeat the speech of Ja'afar ibn Abi Talib to the chrisyian king of Abysssinia.

We have enough lessons in the Torah and the Injeel on the constant destruction of Jerusalem as a result of its debauchery and idolatroy. If there is only One G-d as proclaimed by the Jews, they will never expect any good from the Muslims without a caliph. Let us stop fooling one another.

Friendship.

Edited by Friendship - 21 September 2012 at 10:43pm

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Matt Browne
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Posted: 22 September 2012 at 6:22am

Originally posted by abuayisha

Gosh Matt, notwithstanding the complete subjectivity of "the world's best religion" can it not be said that an institution is sound, however its adherent is flawed at times? Can we also agree that media bias exists throughout the world, and often times distorts perspectives? Indeed it is hoped that people of all faiths can join in mutual dialog, and respect for cultural differences, as well as historical injustices.

Yes, which is best is indeed a subjective view. It is my observation that too many devout Muslims are obsessed with being the best religion, which means other religions are worse. This makes dialog difficult and self-criticism of Islam almost impossible. Yes, there is a media bias towards bad news. The good things that happen in the world are often overlooked. Cultural differences are fine as long as our secular countries' laws are not broken. We will defend our right to freedom of expression. If anyone threatens one of our citizens with violence, because he or she insulted Islam this won't be tolerated. Muslims can disagree and they can also say that they are insulted. They can demonstrate peacefully. But that's it. No threats of violence whatsoever. As for historical injustices: the time between 732 CE and 1529 CE was one huge injustice against Christians and other religions as a result of Islamic imperialism. But instead of playing the poor victim Christians went on to create the Age of Enlightenment with the advance of science and technology. It's time for the people in former colonies to stop blaming the past and work towards a better future.

Yes, there's a small sign of hope. A large group of Muslims in Libya demonstrated against violent Muslims.

Edited by Matt Browne - 23 September 2012 at 9:36am

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Matt Browne
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Posted: 22 September 2012 at 6:35am

BMZ, the book Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown was sold about 80 million times with its claim that Jesus had sex with Mary Magdalene fathering a child. How many people committed crimes in the name of Christianity because of that? Or let me ask you a more general question: Over the last 50 years how many Christians have killed other people in the name of Christianity? You won't find many. Abortion doctors were killed, but that's about it. Show me some verses in the New Testament that ask Christians to become violent.

When a Christian converts to Islam, the other Christians might be disappointed. When a Muslim converts to Christianity he has committed a crime for which the death penalty applies.

Backward Christians might also become enraged. But they don't kill or injure people.

Edited by Matt Browne - 22 September 2012 at 6:36am

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Matt Browne
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Posted: 22 September 2012 at 6:45am

Friendship, are you promoting having a caliph and a caliphate? That would be the ultimate totalitarian theocracy with the complete set of all the harsh sharia laws. I can't imagine that you support this.

Well, and the educated Muslims have to speak out and organize demonstration and deal with the illiterate mob and denounce their violent actions.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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abuayisha

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Posted: 22 September 2012 at 6:49am

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Cultural differences are fine as long as laws in our secular countries are not broken. We will defend our right to freedom of expression. If anyone threatens one of our citizens with violence, because he or she insulted Islam this won't be tolerated. Muslims can disagree and they can also say that they are insulted. They can demonstrate peacefully. But that's it. No threats of violence whatsoever.

Matt you sound angry, and have every right to be disturbed by what is taking place. As a family man myself, I was also extremely upset to see photos of our Ambassador dead in Libya, and the sadness his loved ones must have felt. I just hope that you can empathize with the "other" who are suffering from political injustices brought about by our "right to freedom" in the west, that often times for economic and geopolitical endeavors, creates a great deal of anger, disenfranchisement and animosity among the cultural other in the world.

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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 21 September 2012 at 2:18am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by BMZ* Produce a movie on Jesus making love with Mary Magdalene, show it to them and see the rage. Again BMZ,There is a movie just like that being made... blasphemous against Jesus... however is anyone going to use it to cause violence? Hello, I write mostly on a forum, which is extremely hostile to Islam and the Muslims. My point is simple. Make a movie of Jesus making love with Mary Magdalene. And then watch the reaction and the fierce rage from the backward Christians of the backward Christian countries. I do not write here frequently. So, if you do not hear from me, please know that I am very active somewhere else. Thanks
	Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 21 September 2012 at 3:51pm
	It looks like there may be hope for Libya: Attack on US in Libya fuels anti-militia backlash By MAGGIE MICHAEL, Associated Press – 1 hour ago BENGHAZI, Libya (AP) — Tens of thousands of Libyans marched to the gates of one of the country's strongest armed Islamic extremist groups Friday, demanding it disband, as the attack that killed the U.S. ambassador and four other Americans sparked a public backlash against militias that run rampant in the country and defy the country's new, post-Moammar Gadhafi leadership. ... The militias, a legacy of the rag-tag popular forces that fought Gadhafi's regime, tout themselves as protectors of Libya's revolution, providing security where police cannot. But many say they act like gangs, detaining and intimidating rivals and carrying out killings. Militias made up of Islamic radicals are notorious for attacks on Muslims who don't abide by their hardline ideology. Officials and witnesses say fighters from one Islamic militia, Ansar al-Shariah, led the Sept. 11 attack on the Benghazi consulate. ... The march was the biggest seen in Benghazi, Libya's second largest city and home to 1 million people, since the fall of Gadhafi in August 2011. The unprecedented public backlash comes in part in frustration with the interim government, which has been unable to rein in the armed factions. Many say that officials' attempts to co-opt fighters by paying them have only fueled the growth of militias without bringing them under state control or integrating them into the regular forces.
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 21 September 2012 at 3:53pm
	I wish I could say the same for Pakistan, however: Pakistan hit by deadly riots over anti-Muslim film By Sebastian Abbot on September 21, 2012 ISLAMABAD (AP) — Pakistan's "Day of Love for the Prophet" turned into a deadly day of gunfire, tear gas and arson. Thousands angered by an anti-Muslim film ignored pleas for peaceful rallies and rampaged in several Pakistani cities Friday in battles with police that killed 19 people and touched off criticism of a government decision to declare a national holiday to proclaim devotion for the Prophet Muhammad. ... Analysts accused the Pakistani government of pandering to these extremists by declaring Friday to be an official holiday — calling it a "Day of Love for the Prophet." Officials urged peaceful protests, but critics said the move helped unleash the worst violence yet caused by the film, titled "Innocence of Muslims." Well, what did they expect? Was this just sheer government incompetence, or were they trying to trigger further violence?
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Friendship Senior Member Joined: 24 August 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 874	Posted: 21 September 2012 at 10:41pm
	Assalamu alaikum. Well, there will never be an end to slaughter and destruction in the world once the West failed to understand what Islam is actually all about. The West refused to understand the illiteracy level of the followers of Muhammad. It is just like a physician giving toxic drugs to a patient with incurable liver disease. Each disease has its remedy is a well known expression by early Muslim scholars. Is the teaching of Jesus son of Maryam not part of the way and means we can live with one another? Muhammad was principally sent to settle the dispute between the followers of what Moses truely taught practised and what was distorted twisted and changed. There is nothing called Islam other than that. But no one listens and believes in that. It is good that Ron and others read to understand G-d, but they must rely on what the messengers say and not introduce ideas that are outside the realm and spirit of revelation. Freedom of speech and right of expression should be limited to improoving the lots of the citizenry. I do not have to repeat the speech of Ja'afar ibn Abi Talib to the chrisyian king of Abysssinia. We have enough lessons in the Torah and the Injeel on the constant destruction of Jerusalem as a result of its debauchery and idolatroy. If there is only One G-d as proclaimed by the Jews, they will never expect any good from the Muslims without a caliph. Let us stop fooling one another. Friendship. Edited by Friendship - 21 September 2012 at 10:43pm
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Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 22 September 2012 at 6:22am
	*Originally posted by abuayisha* Gosh Matt, notwithstanding the complete subjectivity of "the world's best religion" can it not be said that an institution is sound, however its adherent is flawed at times? Can we also agree that media bias exists throughout the world, and often times distorts perspectives? Indeed it is hoped that people of all faiths can join in mutual dialog, and respect for cultural differences, as well as historical injustices. Yes, which is best is indeed a subjective view. It is my observation that too many devout Muslims are obsessed with being the best religion, which means other religions are worse. This makes dialog difficult and self-criticism of Islam almost impossible. Yes, there is a media bias towards bad news. The good things that happen in the world are often overlooked. Cultural differences are fine as long as our secular countries' laws are not broken. We will defend our right to freedom of expression. If anyone threatens one of our citizens with violence, because he or she insulted Islam this won't be tolerated. Muslims can disagree and they can also say that they are insulted. They can demonstrate peacefully. But that's it. No threats of violence whatsoever. As for historical injustices: the time between 732 CE and 1529 CE was one huge injustice against Christians and other religions as a result of Islamic imperialism. But instead of playing the poor victim Christians went on to create the Age of Enlightenment with the advance of science and technology. It's time for the people in former colonies to stop blaming the past and work towards a better future. Yes, there's a small sign of hope. A large group of Muslims in Libya demonstrated against violent Muslims. Edited by Matt Browne - 23 September 2012 at 9:36am
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 22 September 2012 at 6:35am
	BMZ, the book Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown was sold about 80 million times with its claim that Jesus had sex with Mary Magdalene fathering a child. How many people committed crimes in the name of Christianity because of that? Or let me ask you a more general question: Over the last 50 years how many Christians have killed other people in the name of Christianity? You won't find many. Abortion doctors were killed, but that's about it. Show me some verses in the New Testament that ask Christians to become violent. When a Christian converts to Islam, the other Christians might be disappointed. When a Muslim converts to Christianity he has committed a crime for which the death penalty applies. Backward Christians might also become enraged. But they don't kill or injure people. Edited by Matt Browne - 22 September 2012 at 6:36am
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
	IP Logged

Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 22 September 2012 at 6:45am
	Friendship, are you promoting having a caliph and a caliphate? That would be the ultimate totalitarian theocracy with the complete set of all the harsh sharia laws. I can't imagine that you support this. Well, and the educated Muslims have to speak out and organize demonstration and deal with the illiterate mob and denounce their violent actions.
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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abuayisha Senior Member Joined: 05 October 1999 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3994	Posted: 22 September 2012 at 6:49am
	*Originally posted by Matt Browne* Cultural differences are fine as long as laws in our secular countries are not broken. We will defend our right to freedom of expression. If anyone threatens one of our citizens with violence, because he or she insulted Islam this won't be tolerated. Muslims can disagree and they can also say that they are insulted. They can demonstrate peacefully. But that's it. No threats of violence whatsoever. Matt you sound angry, and have every right to be disturbed by what is taking place. As a family man myself, I was also extremely upset to see photos of our Ambassador dead in Libya, and the sadness his loved ones must have felt. I just hope that you can empathize with the "other" who are suffering from political injustices brought about by our "right to freedom" in the west, that often times for economic and geopolitical endeavors, creates a great deal of anger, disenfranchisement and animosity among the cultural other in the world.
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