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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 4:39am

<sigh>

In case you didn't notice, Abuayisha, I was defending your religion.  Even though I don't believe a word of it, even though IMHO the world would be better off without it, nonetheless it is not an obstacle to peace and harmony among cultures, as caringheart implied (or at least no more so than all the other religions) and does not need to be reformed on that account.

Tell me, would it be fair to say that you believe that Scientology should be discarded altogether?  How about Mormonism?  Or Humanism?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 5:21am
Originally posted by Caringheart



Are you familiar with this by chance;Blasphemous Movie “jesus of nazareth”                         
?This is how other people deal with these things;http://www.cftvc.org/121/Attacks are made on religion all the time.  It's not like we weren't told this would be so. [IMG]smileys/smiley6.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Unhappy" />


The whole purpose of making that video was to incite violence. II was made by a violent member of Christianity and he also knew it would put American lives at stake and yet he went ahead.

Quote from an American to an American Christian on another forum:

"Any christian who does not publicly condemn this film, is morally responsible for it.

You have not yet spoken against the Christians that made that vile video either.

Just can't bring yourself to admit that Christians started this and should be held responsible for the results. Especially because they certainly knew full well what the results would be."

If somebody made a movie (Muslims will never do that) showing Jesus making hot and wild love with Mary Magdalene and also with John, the Western Christians would not go ballistic and will show no uproar and rage.

However, if such a movie is made and shown to the backward Christians of backward countries in Africa, South America, the European backyard, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Philippines, it would be a rage that the West would not have ever seen.

This is what Westerners do not know and do not realize.



Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 6:44am

It would be fair to say that moderate - mainstream Islam seeks only to proselytize, in other words, make sure that mankind has an opportunity to hear the message of Islam. As long as an ideology does not cause harm, moderate - mainstream Islam has absolutely no problem co-existing along side. The ideology of extreme radical Islam isn't compatible with pluralism and must be confronted. Certainly, the "heavy lifting" the ideological arguments must be made from within Islam, because to suggest as you have, and as a complete outsider, that you will allow Quran - but Muslim should discard Hadith, will never address the ideological battle between moderates and extremist in Islam.

 

American Muslims to a much greater degree than European Muslims have assimilated and there exists very little troubles with extremism. What is needed is a greater recognition of those moderate Muslims who live peacefully in order to isolate extremist. If you continue to have the inability or unwillingness to differentiate between moderates and radicals it will result in legitimizing radicals and isolating moderates. In other words, as difficult and painful as it may seem, the West will need to win the hearts and minds of moderates, who are indeed the mainstream of Islam, as to not politically push them into the hands of radicals.  "sigh"

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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 7:04am
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by BMZ




Greetings, BMZ,
I am confused about your position.
Did you check out the link?  People are outraged and taking action against this blasphemous movie about Jesus.  They are just not finding scapegoats to blame and are not killing innocent people over it.

Could we not say the same things about those making this blasphemous movie about Jesus... that they are deliberately inciting to riot and use that as an excuse for killing, and that whoever made the movie should then take the blame for people who go out and kill?

How did the western insulting movie about Muhammad get circulated to parts where it would incite to riot?  Who is it that goes looking for these things, and spreading them?  And you know what... that doesn't even matter... it still does not excuse killing over it.  Where does that mentality come from?  You say you think Christians in other backwards countries would behave this same way?
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 6:07pm
To say Christians are responsible for the video is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but i didnt know about the video until I heard about embassies burning as most
people here in the US. .... so how does that make us responsible ?
  The video was obviously made by a hateful individual....  even the actors didnt know what the movie was going to be about untill the sound track was altered. They didnt know Prophet Muhammad was going to be brought up.
  But I think any excuse to blame the US in the Muslim world is very welcome there. So ..... hey go spead the video some more!... have more Muslims watch it !I refuse to watch it.... I don't like that kind of stuff.

Personally I think it should be REMOVED from the internet. Even in the US it is illegal to shout Fire in a crowded theatre.
 
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 19 September 2012 at 7:42pm

Originally posted by abuayisha

It would be fair to say that moderate - mainstream Islam seeks only to proselytize, in other words, make sure that mankind has an opportunity to hear the message of Islam. As long as an ideology does not cause harm, moderate - mainstream Islam has absolutely no problem co-existing along side. The ideology of extreme radical Islam isn't compatible with pluralism and must be confronted.

We can agree on that much.

Certainly, the "heavy lifting" the ideological arguments must be made from within Islam, because to suggest as you have, and as a complete outsider, that you will allow Quran - but Muslim should discard Hadith, will never address the ideological battle between moderates and extremist in Islam.

Well, just for the record, I didn't use the word "allow", which would be rather arrogant.  I arrived at the Quran-only interpretation on my own, just by reading the Quran and sampling the hadith; but you are surely aware that there is a growing movement within the Muslim community in favour of that position.  I do think that ultimately it has to be the solution to the growing gap between ideology and modernity, but you're right that my opinions are probably not worth much.  I'm just sayin'.

American Muslims to a much greater degree than European Muslims have assimilated and there exists very little troubles with extremism. What is needed is a greater recognition of those moderate Muslims who live peacefully in order to isolate extremist. If you continue to have the inability or unwillingness to differentiate between moderates and radicals it will result in legitimizing radicals and isolating moderates. In other words, as difficult and painful as it may seem, the West will need to win the hearts and minds of moderates, who are indeed the mainstream of Islam, as to not politically push them into the hands of radicals.

I'm not sure why it's our job to win the hearts and minds of moderates, rather than vice versa.  I agree that recognition and differentiation is a challenge though, so help me out.  The thousands upon thousands of Muslims who participated in the riots -- are they mainstream, or are they extremists?

Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 20 September 2012 at 12:47am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by BMZ

Greetings, BMZ,I am confused about your position.Did you check out the link?  People are outraged and taking action against this blasphemous movie about Jesus.  They are just not finding scapegoats to blame and are not killing innocent people over it.Could we not say the same things about those making this blasphemous movie about Jesus... that they are deliberately inciting to riot and use that as an excuse for killing, and that whoever made the movie should then take the blame for people who go out and kill?How did the western insulting movie about Muhammad get circulated to parts where it would incite to riot?  Who is it that goes looking for these things, and spreading them?  And you know what... that doesn't even matter... it still does not excuse killing over it.  Where does that mentality come from?  You say you think Christians in other backwards countries would behave this same way?


Can you please first condemn the movie and the men, who made it?

I will then elaborate.

Thanks
Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God."
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