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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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A-Tirawi
 
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Quote A-Tirawi Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2005 at 1:02pm

David

Perhaps i am understanding you incorectly, but it sounds to me as if you are trying to justify a wrong with a wrong when you make statements such as these:

"Of course God's manifestations can be elucidated. Al-Gazzali did it much better than the the Christians. "

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DavidC
 
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Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2005 at 1:30pm
No, I believe Al-Gazzali's 99 names of God to be far richer poetically than
the Christian trinity. But it is to be expected of a theological genius with
an extra 500 years of background.

DavidC

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tawhid
 
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Quote tawhid Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2005 at 2:18pm

you muslims better try harder than you are.....

you need to see and slow down kind muslims....

they are not proclaiming the 'holy trinity' as if it is in the bible...

they are simply claiming the one true god in the capacities of which He (the one true God) chooses to manifest Himself

i wish i had the time to go more in debth...i recieved my degree in islam/christain relations from college...but am working full time so i simply do not have the time to go more in depth with this conversation....

but with each post of muslim rebuttles to davidc and yesha...only strengthens my faith in Christ the Son of God who was begotten by God while still retaining all divinity therin....it was simply a mansifestation of God

rather than an impersonal God...he showed himself...

"than why didnt jesus call himself God?" you muslims may ask....

well question to you muslim...

why didnt God say he was God when Moses asked him instead of calling himself "hshm" (i am that i am)??

muslim friends....stop arguing over the chaff...

the multituded that you will proselytyze to your man made religion is not measure of the authenticity of the trueness of your faith...

numbers in your religion should not give you courage that your religion is the true one...but it is through God spirit...God's intercession in your life that you should be content...not the numbers of believers.

the "holy trinity" is not in the bible...but in the quran...is spake of believers finding counsil in the enjeels...interesting...but not practiced in islam faith

 

please muslims...to the untrained ear and a heart lacking the holy spirit...your doctrine is almost like sweet fruit ripe for consumption..

but to the discerning heart...it is sinking sand...

in Christ's name...my lord my God...

thomas

 

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2005 at 6:54pm

I have two responses but first I will respond to Yesha since Yesha's question is the easiest. Yesha you said:

"Israfil,

In the way talk about the 'essence' of God.  What is the essence of man?"

 

Yesha good question. The essence of man is unlike the essence of God, example, being that the essence of man is created and God is not. That can be one simple asnwer but if you are meaning accoridng to Christian doctrine it is possible to view the Biblical implication of "God's image" this is nothing more than a metaphorical way to say that man has the "free" intellect and the will to act upon the intellect in a free but limited way. The intellect, not the essence is comparable to God because man is the highest intellectual animal in the animal kingdom. God is however close to mankind in the sense that mankind's intellectual capacity is able to comprehend the signs of God's existence. So from this we must understand that man's essence is apart of creation which is way different from the essence of the Creator.

 

For David C you said:

 

"Israfil - the selection was by Fr. Michel not written by me. It is Jesuit and
is entirely orthodox even mentioning purely heretical views

Of course God's manifestations can be elucidated. Al-Gazzali did it much
better than the the Christians.

Muslims primary purpose in assailing the trinitarian concept is to disrupt
the faith of others. Consider your purpose - do you seek understanding
or would you just settlel for a pyrric victory?

Of course, if God has a letter for you friend Israfil he does not need
mullahs or imams or Hajj or zakat or mosques or hadith either. He could
give it to you directly. Why does Islam need five pillars or 99 names of
God? Because they enable us to pass the word (Jesus or Qu'ran) -
correctly - through generations.

There is one world, but sometimes we see night, othertimes sunrise,
othertimes rain. No one doubts it is only one world, but using different
words for different aspects is vey useful. To say it is all one world may be
correct, but a great deal of understanding is lost."

 

 

David C, first and foremost my intentions was not to disrespect you, not your faith and if you got the impression my apologies. I highly respect you and your faith and what you stand for. You are an upright person and I truly believe in my heart that you are guided by Allah, even though our views are different. Secondly about what you mentioned my apologies for misunderstanding your post, however in the future it would be grammatically appropriate to use quotation marks in your post to note the difference between this person you quoted and yourself to avoid this misunderstanding.

 

Also you mentioned if my goal was to seek truth in the trinitarian principle or to have a pyrric victory. No, as I have mentioned befgore I was formerly a Christian and studied much of the trinitarian principle during undergraduate years at my university. In much of my medieval philosophy classes we did study the origins of the trinity and what they derive from and the metaphors associated with the trinity. I know that the trinity can be highly symbolic, as a way of a intellectual hierarchy to know the Creator through his messenger/Son Jesus Christ. et me remind you again that as a former Christian I was well aware of this yet I could not fathom its logic, perhaps such a principle is beyond my understanding. So my apologies if you feel I disrespected you as it was not my intention.

 

As for the 99 names of Allah and Imams and Mullahs you mention let me tell you that I do not follow a particular Mullah or Imam as even their views of the world are different. I follow the knowledge I apprehend through strict study and application of Quranic philosophy and if need be I do seek help in some its understanding. As for the 99 names of Allah these are attributes which signify Allah's infinite being and these are minute references to the essence of Allah but if you read the "Inadequate Language" forum I posted you'd see that I noted that even such attributes as the 99 names of Allah are inadequate seeing how its hard to not apply inadepquate language to Allah.

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2005 at 6:58pm
Tawhid from your last post it appears that you are not Muslim and if I'm wrong may you as well as Allah forgive me. Rather than using Tawhid which means Unity of Allah, I suggest using an appropriate name i.e. name, or even religious belief. But its highly disrespectful to Muslims as well as yourself to have an Islamic principle as a screename if you do not believe in Islam.
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2005 at 10:58pm

Originally posted by Israfil

God is of one essence and of one intellect and is unified as one person.

Isn't this a trinity ?

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Rehmat
 
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2005 at 8:01am
Originally posted by tawhid

......well question to you muslim...

why didnt God say he was God when Moses asked him instead of calling himself "hshm" (i am that i am)??

It's very interesting for someone to write such a long post while keep saying 'he/she doesn't have the time to go into depth'

Now to your question. Before the revelation of God's Final Testament (Holy Qur'an) - all earlier scriptures mention the Creator (God) as the Father. However, I am what I am was God's response to prophet Moses (as) question Who you're? Moses (as) being equipped with a tiny human brain did not have the capacity to comprehend Allah's Majesty.

Know your enemy!
No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You

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tawhid
 
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Quote tawhid Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2005 at 8:19am

Originally posted by Israfil

Tawhid from your last post it appears that you are not Muslim and if I'm wrong may you as well as Allah forgive me. Rather than using Tawhid which means Unity of Allah, I suggest using an appropriate name i.e. name, or even religious belief. But its highly disrespectful to Muslims as well as yourself to have an Islamic principle as a screename if you do not believe in Islam.

salam aaleakum,

that is to suppose that CHristians do not as well believe in the unity of allah....do we....?  YES

so no i will not change my name...

it simply means unity in God....in the arabic language....that is it...

it doesnt necessarily mean the islamic unity in god or the christian unity in god...it simply means:

unity in god

because i believe in tawhid which was given to us in the last book of the new testiment, im going to keep my name

maybe you should visit america sometime...you will get use to getting disrespected...you grow stronger from it

i can say the very same thing about screen names that say...true faith, or right religion...do i get desrespected, no

 

tawhid

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