IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: THE MESSAGE OF THE MESSENGERS

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truthnowcome

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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 12:19am

Peace Caringheart.

The word "received" is a typo mistake, understood!

<>

No, I think you are not coming straight. You said: “Jesus is the Holy Spirit that dwell with the disciples”. He then breathes into the disciples the Holy Spirit. I want to know if Jesus (S) breads himself into the disciples.

TNC

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!

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Caringheart

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Posted: 03 October 2012 at 4:34pm

Originally posted by truthnowcome

Peace Caringheart.

TNC

Greetings TNC,

I'm sorry I was responding to this;

Jesus (S) said (and this is before he left): “...as my father hath sent me, even so i send you (the disciple) and when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said unto them, received ye the holy ghost.” (john.20:21-22)

Did Jesus (S) bread himself into the disciples here?

TNC

and I thought you were asking if Jesus 'breathed' the Holy Spirit into the Disciples.

If you truly mean the word 'bread' I am assuming you are referring to the last supper? Where Jesus breaks bread and says "this is My body which will be given up for you"?
So are you asking if eating the bread is receiving the Spirit of Jesus?
It is what Jesus said... "when you eat this bread and drink this cup"
Are you asking if I, personally, take it literally? Others do. I, personally, am not sure. Do I believe we come into communion with God? Yes, but what that means individually I believe is open to interpretation and according to each individual's experience.

Again, I don't know if that helps. Smile

Salaam,
Caringheart

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truthnowcome

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Posted: 04 October 2012 at 10:51pm

Peace Caringheart,
I always misspell words, the word there I meant was "breathe" not breads. However, Let me go over it again.

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by truthnowcome

<>
“even the spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for “he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.” (John14:16-17). If this Comforter is in Heaven how suddenly he dwelleth with them?

TNC

You said:

Greetings TNC,

I must be brief.

Jesus was referring to Himself... He is the Spirit that dwelleth with his Apostle's that the world knoweth not... and He promises that He first must go that the Spirit may return and dwell within them[the Apostles].

the Spirit of Truth... Truth... God.. Father, Son, Holy Spirit

We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy spirit. Surah 2:87

In that post you said: “Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with his Apostle…”

That is the reason I ask: “when Jesus (S) breathed on to the disciples if he breathed himself unto them”

Jesus (S) said (and this is before he left): “...as my father hath sent me, even so i send you (the disciple) and when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said unto them, received ye the holy ghost.” (john.20:21-22)

Did Jesus (S) bread himself into the disciples there?

In the post below you change the tone, you said: “…Jesus had the Spirit of God...”

Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings TNC,

But yes, it is understood that the disciples received the Spirit of God, as Jesus had the Spirit of God, that they also would be able to do the miracles which Jesus had done.

The Spirit of God is a thing that has the ability to live in each one of us, if we are given to receive it.

Spirit is spirit.

I don't know if that helps.
Blessings,
Caringheart

It has been said that;
The earliest Christians experienced the Holy Spirit as a rush of wind that opened them to understanding one another as never before.

I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God.

I am waiting, Peace!

TNC

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!

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Caringheart

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Posted: 05 October 2012 at 11:10am

Originally posted by truthnowcome

<>
I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God.

I am waiting, Peace!

TNC

Greetings TNC,

This is easy to explain.

I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow.

)... Now I do not take this to mean that His apostle's received the Holy Spirit at that time, as the Gospels tell me that the Holy Spirit came to the apostles at Pentacost... after Jesus had risen, just as Jesus had said, the Holy spirit could not, and would not, come until He had gone. This is how I understand.

Salaam,

Caringheart

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truthnowcome

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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 10:42am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by truthnowcome

I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God.

I am waiting, Peace!

TNC

Greetings TNC,

This is easy to explain.

I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow.

Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is 'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity here... to make sure we are understanding each other. )... Now I do not take this to mean that His apostle's received the Holy Spirit at that time, as the Gospels tell me that the Holy Spirit came to the apostles at Pentacost... after Jesus had risen, just as Jesus had said, the Holy spirit could not, and would not, come until He had gone. This is how I understand.

Salaam,

Caringheart

Peace unto you!

So what they received there? <>

It says in John.20:21-22 “...As my father hath sent me, even so I “send” you (the disciple) and when he had said this, he breathe on them, and said unto them, “received ye the Holy Ghost.” (John.20:21-22).

They were then sent to go and remit sins:

“Whosesoever sins ye (The disciples) remit, they are remited unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” John 20:23

Did they remit sins empty handed?

tnc

Edited by truthnowcome - 09 October 2012 at 10:48am

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!

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truthnowcome

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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 11:03am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by truthnowcome

I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God.

I am waiting, Peace!

TNC

Greetings TNC,

This is easy to explain.

I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow.

Salaam,

Caringheart

Caringheart, there is a big difference between “WITH him” and “HE is”

If the spirit of God is with him and he is the Spirit of God then what you are implying is that Jesus is with Jesus.

So this verse “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven... and abode upon him.”(John 1:32) Will imply that Jesus abode upon Jesus.

Which one is really Jesus (S)?

thc

LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!

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honeto

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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:12pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by truthnowcome

<>
I know what
is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the
Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God.

I am
waiting, Peace!

TNC

Greetings TNC,

This is easy to explain.

I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow. [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />

Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is 'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity here... to make sure we are understanding each other. [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />)... Now I do not take this to mean that His apostle's received the Holy Spirit at that time, as the Gospels tell me that the Holy Spirit came to the apostles at Pentacost... after Jesus had risen, just as Jesus had said, the Holy spirit could not, and would not, come until He had gone. This is how I understand.

Salaam,

Caringheart

Caringheart,
you said above: "Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth"
This is in contrast to what you said once before. Remember when we were talking about John 16:12“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you." At that point you were saying that this refers to the coming of the holy spirit. Now you are saying that while on earth Jesus and the apostles had that Spirit with them. In fact you are saying that Jesus was that Spirit!
So now beside creating more problems, it disproves your own thoughts before that the Holy Spirit was the one that the above verses say will come.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Caringheart

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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:36pm

Originally posted by honeto

Hasan

Greetings,

I really hate when people confuse my words when I think I have been quite clear. I will say it again.

The Holy Spirit whom Jesus referred to while He was with His apostles was Himself... the Holy Spirit was in Jesus... remember the Spirit of God... the dove... which descended upon Jesus when John the Baptist baptized Him?
Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His apostles after He was gone from the earth... that the Holy Spirit could not come into them while He was still here on earth, but when He was gone they would not be left alone... that when He was gone he would send that Spirit[of Himself] to them, to indwell them.

While with them in the flesh, Jesus was that Holy Spirit of God.
Once he was gone the Holy Spirit came into the Apostle's at pentacost.

No confusion.
Is it a mystery? Yes.
Mystery is not the same as confusion.

Salaam

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Topic: THE MESSAGE OF THE MESSENGERS
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Author	Message
truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Online Posts: 682	Posted: 03 October 2012 at 12:19am
	Peace Caringheart. The word "received" is a typo mistake, understood! <> No, I think you are not coming straight. You said: “Jesus is the Holy Spirit that dwell with the disciples”. He then breathes into the disciples the Holy Spirit. I want to know if Jesus (S) breads himself into the disciples. TNC
	LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 03 October 2012 at 4:34pm
	*Originally posted by truthnowcome* Peace Caringheart. No, I think you are not coming straight. You said: “Jesus is the Holy Spirit that dwell with the disciples”. He then breathes into the disciples the Holy Spirit. I want to know if Jesus (S) breads himself into the disciples. TNC Greetings TNC, I'm sorry I was responding to this; Jesus (S) said (and this is before he left): “...as my father hath sent me, even so i send you (the disciple) and when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said unto them, received ye the holy ghost.” (john.20:21-22) Did Jesus (S) bread himself into the disciples here? TNC and I thought you were asking if Jesus 'breathed' the Holy Spirit into the Disciples. If you truly mean the word 'bread' I am assuming you are referring to the last supper? Where Jesus breaks bread and says "this is My body which will be given up for you"? So are you asking if eating the bread is receiving the Spirit of Jesus? It is what Jesus said... "when you eat this bread and drink this cup" Are you asking if I, personally, take it literally? Others do. I, personally, am not sure. Do I believe we come into communion with God? Yes, but what that means individually I believe is open to interpretation and according to each individual's experience. Again, I don't know if that helps. Salaam, Caringheart
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truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Online Posts: 682	Posted: 04 October 2012 at 10:51pm
	<> Peace Caringheart, I always misspell words, the word there I meant was "breathe" not breads. However, Let me go over it again. *Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by truthnowcome* <> “even the spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for “he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.” (John14:16-17). If this Comforter is in Heaven how suddenly he dwelleth with them? TNC You said: Greetings TNC, I must be brief. Jesus was referring to Himself... He is the Spirit that dwelleth with his Apostle's that the world knoweth not... and He promises that He first must go that the Spirit may return and dwell within them[the Apostles]. the Spirit of Truth... Truth... God.. Father, Son, Holy Spirit We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy spirit. Surah 2:87 In that post you said: “Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with his Apostle…” That is the reason I ask: “when Jesus (S) breathed on to the disciples if he breathed himself unto them” Jesus (S) said (and this is before he left): “...as my father hath sent me, even so i send you (the disciple) and when he had said this, *he breathed on them, and said unto them, received ye the holy ghost.” (john.20:21-22)* Did Jesus (S) bread himself into the disciples there? In the post below you change the tone, you said: “…Jesus had the Spirit of God...” *Originally posted by Caringheart* Greetings TNC, But yes, it is understood that the disciples received the Spirit of God, as Jesus had the Spirit of God, that they also would be able to do the miracles which Jesus had done. The Spirit of God is a thing that has the ability to live in each one of us, if we are given to receive it. Spirit is spirit. I don't know if that helps. Blessings, Caringheart It has been said that; The earliest Christians experienced the Holy Spirit as a rush of wind that opened them to understanding one another as never before. I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God. I am waiting, Peace! TNC
	LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 05 October 2012 at 11:10am
	*Originally posted by truthnowcome* <> I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God. I am waiting, Peace! TNC Greetings TNC, This is easy to explain. I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow. Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is 'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity here... to make sure we are understanding each other. )... Now I do not take this to mean that His apostle's received the Holy Spirit at that time, as the Gospels tell me that the Holy Spirit came to the apostles at Pentacost... after Jesus had risen, just as Jesus had said, the Holy spirit could not, and would not, come until He had gone. This is how I understand. Salaam, Caringheart
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truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Online Posts: 682	Posted: 09 October 2012 at 10:42am
	<> *Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by truthnowcome* I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God. I am waiting, Peace! TNC Greetings TNC, This is easy to explain. I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow. Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is 'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity here... to make sure we are understanding each other. )... Now I do not take this to mean that His apostle's received the Holy Spirit at that time, as the Gospels tell me that the Holy Spirit came to the apostles at Pentacost... after Jesus had risen, just as Jesus had said, the Holy spirit could not, and would not, come until He had gone. This is how I understand. Salaam, Caringheart Peace unto you! So what they received there? <> It says in John.20:21-22 “...As my father hath sent me, even so I “send” you (the disciple) and when he had said this, he breathe on them, and said unto them*, “received ye the Holy Ghost.”* (John.20:21-22). They were then sent to go and remit sins: “Whosesoever sins ye (The disciples) remit, they are remited unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.” John 20:23 Did they remit sins empty handed? tnc Edited by truthnowcome - 09 October 2012 at 10:48am
	LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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truthnowcome Senior Member Joined: 05 April 2007 Online Status: Online Posts: 682	Posted: 09 October 2012 at 11:03am
	<> *Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by truthnowcome* I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God. I am waiting, Peace! TNC Greetings TNC, This is easy to explain. I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow. Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is 'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity here... to make sure we are Salaam, Caringheart Caringheart, there is a big difference between “WITH him” and “HE is” If the spirit of God is with him and he is the Spirit of God then what you are implying is that Jesus is with Jesus. So this verse “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven... and abode upon him.”(John 1:32) Will imply that Jesus abode upon Jesus. Which one is really Jesus (S)? thc
	LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:12pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by truthnowcome* <> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;"></span><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God.</span> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">I am waiting, Peace!</span> <span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11pt;">TNC</span> Greetings TNC, This is easy to explain. I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow. [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" /> Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is 'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity here... to make sure we are understanding each other. [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />)... Now I do not take this to mean that His apostle's received the Holy Spirit at that time, as the Gospels tell me that the Holy Spirit came to the apostles at Pentacost... after Jesus had risen, just as Jesus had said, the Holy spirit could not, and would not, come until He had gone. This is how I understand. Salaam, Caringheart Caringheart, you said above: "Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth" This is in contrast to what you said once before. Remember when we were talking about John 16:12“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you." At that point you were saying that this refers to the coming of the holy spirit. Now you are saying that while on earth Jesus and the apostles had that Spirit with them. In fact you are saying that Jesus was that Spirit! So now beside creating more problems, it disproves your own thoughts before that the Holy Spirit was the one that the above verses say will come. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:36pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* Hasan Greetings, I really hate when people confuse my words when I think I have been quite clear. I will say it again. The Holy Spirit whom Jesus referred to while He was with His apostles was Himself... the Holy Spirit was in Jesus... remember the Spirit of God... the dove... which descended upon Jesus when John the Baptist baptized Him? Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His apostles after He was gone from the earth... that the Holy Spirit could not come into them while He was still here on earth, but when He was gone they would not be left alone... that when He was gone he would send that Spirit[of Himself] to them, to indwell them. While with them in the flesh, Jesus was that Holy Spirit of God. Once he was gone the Holy Spirit came into the Apostle's at pentacost. No confusion. Is it a mystery? Yes. Mystery is not the same as confusion. Salaam
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