IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES

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Mahdi The Seeke
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Posted: 14 November 2012 at 6:33am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Jesus was sent to the Israelites just like all the Israelite prophets before him. Read my previous posts to see the evidence i have presented for my point of view.

and so?What does this mean to you, that Jesus does not lead gentiles to God?who were the people who listened to Jesus and learned from him?the gentiles.the Jews rejected Him._____________________24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was s*****p three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;26 But unto none of them was Elijah sent, save unto Zarephath, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. (Luke 4) and also Mark 6:4; But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house._____________________

If you know Jesus was sent to Israelites and you a non israelite want to follow him, it is up to you.

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Experiential

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Joined: 23 November 2010
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Posts: 278

Posted: 15 November 2012 at 2:14am

Mahdi Said

In short, you have no problem with Jesus insulting a woman in need for the simple fault of being a non Jew. To each their own.

My Reply

In short you have no problem with the Quran referring to non Muslims as dogs, donkeys, pigs, beasts and apes.

Secondly who says it was an insult? The actual word in the Greek is “puppies”. The image Jesus has chosen is an image of endearment, not insult. The picture of supper-time, with little kids at the table, and their pet puppies at their feet, maybe tugging on their robes for food or play. The puppies, dear to the children and probably so too to Jesus.

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Experiential

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Posted: 15 November 2012 at 2:16am

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Experiental said;
God ignoring the non Jew is
your personal opinion.

Yes, the God of the Bible never masterminded the annihilation, genocide, massacre and ethnic cleansing of non israelite nations. I totally made all that up.

Yes Mohammad your Prophet was a man of the sword who masterminded the bloody torture and murder of the men of Ukl or Uraynah.

He showed the example when at the at the Battle Trench (also called The Battle of Ahzap or the Seige of Medina.) when he executed all the adult males of the city. And took the women and children into slavery.

And how Muslim are men allowed sex with their slave girls and captured women.

Islam holds no moral high ground!

What happened to the non Jews God also brought about on the Jewish people through the Assyrians, Babylonians and Romans. So there was no favoritism there.

In terms of the Canaanites the Bible is clear in that God was exceedingly patient with them in regards to their idol worship which also involved the abominable practice of sacrificing their children into the fires of their Gods.

Genesis 15.16 shows God was watching the Canaanites very closely and waiting for them to change. Also Canaan had a final forty-year countdown as they heard of the events in Egypt, at the crossing of the Reed Sea, and what happened to the kings who opposed Israel along the way.

Remember God knew the Canaanite Cults were dangerously contaminating and if this wasn’t controlled the Messianic prophesies through Abraham, Isaac, David and ultimately Jesus The Mesiah would be at risk.

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Experiential

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Posted: 15 November 2012 at 2:18am

Mahi Said

Am i right to say that you think the massacres of the nations in canaan were fully justified?

My Reply

There is much I do not understand about God.

Am I right to say you supported the actions of Mohammad in his war mongering?

Which side would you have taken in all the civil wars and jihads throughout your Muslim “Golden Era” and beyond?

Do you think you might have been awarded a slave girl for your jihadi efforts?

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Salaam_Erin
Male Christian
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Joined: 30 October 2012
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 41

Posted: 15 November 2012 at 6:41am

Mahdi, you need to read the whole of Jesus' lecture to the disciples in Matthew 10. In verses 5-6 Jesus tells them as He is sending them out to represent them in His own mission, not to go into Gentile territories or Samaritan towns but the lost sheep of Israel. This is with reference to geography then. He therefore wants them to stick to Judaea and Galilee. However, He goes on to warn them about the long term future of their mission. In verse 17 He then warns the disciples that many Jews will reject them and that they will be expelled from the synagogue. In verse 18 He then says they will go out to the Gentiles. "On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles." You see, you have to consider what Jesus' preaching and teaching mission was about. It was about to get the Jews back to obeying the Torah and proclaiming the Kingdom of God and the New Covenant. Then, the Jews were to go out to the Gentiles. In Matthew 10 Jesus sends them on a training mission to Jews only, but warns them that in the future they will be persecuted, driven out of synagogues and end up before governors and kings and be witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. That doesn't mean that the mission to the Jews is over though. For Jesus goes on to say in verse 23, "I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes."

At the end of His mission, as He is about to Ascend into Heaven, on more than one occasion Jesus then gives His disciples that wider mission as predicted in verse 18 which went beyond the training programme of verses 5-6. Look at Matthew 28:18-20 and Acts 1:6-9. After all, Jesus did heal the Syro-Phoenician woman's daughter, the centurion's servant, the royal official's son, and many people who came from Tyre and Sidon to be healed, and a Samaritan leper.

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Caringheart

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Posted: 15 November 2012 at 11:46am

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Luke was not there.

1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

²Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

³It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

⁴That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

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Larry
Male Christian
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Location: United States
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Posts: 632

Posted: 15 November 2012 at 11:44pm

Good and accurate reply, Caringheart. Maybe if more Muslims took the time to read the Bible instead of trying to discredit it at every turn, they might come to know the Love and Salvation of Jesus Christ the True and Everlasting Messiah, at One with the God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Luke was not there.

1 Forasmuch
as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those
things which are most surely believed among us,

2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

3 It
seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things
from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent
Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

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Mahdi The Seeke
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Senior Member

Joined: 28 July 2011
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Posts: 257

Posted: 16 November 2012 at 9:21am

Originally posted by Experiential

Mahdi Said<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

In short, you have no problem with Jesus insulting a woman in need for the simple fault of being a non Jew. To each their own.

My Reply<o:p></o:p>

In short you have no problem with the Quran referring to non Muslims as dogs, donkeys, pigs, beasts and apes.

<o:p> </o:p>

Secondly who says it was an insult? The actual word in the Greek is “puppies”. The image Jesus has chosen is an image of endearment, not insult. The picture of supper-time, with little kids at the table, and their pet puppies at their feet, maybe tugging on their robes for food or play. The puppies, dear to the children and probably so too to Jesus.

1.Answer my question.
2.Reinterpret your own version of the Bible to justify your translation otherwise you are making baseless claims. Have you even read the verse?
Matthew 15:26
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Please, if you want to engage in serious discussions, desist from making such baseless arguments. DOG is the word.
How are dogs described in old testament. One example

For dogs have surrounded me;
a gang of evildoers has closed
in on me; they pierced my
hands and my feet. Psalm 22:16

A gang of evildoers.

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Topic: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES
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Author	Message
Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 257	Posted: 14 November 2012 at 6:33am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke* Jesus was sent to the Israelites just like all the Israelite prophets before him. Read my previous posts to see the evidence i have presented for my point of view. and so?What does this mean to you, that Jesus does not lead gentiles to God?who were the people who listened to Jesus and learned from him?the gentiles.the Jews rejected Him._____________________24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was s*****p three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;26 But unto none of them was Elijah sent, save unto <span id="en-NIV-25090" ="text Luke-4-26"><span ="woj">Zarephath</span></span>, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. (Luke 4) and also Mark 6:4; But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house._____________________ If you know Jesus was sent to Israelites and you a non israelite want to follow him, it is up to you.
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 278	Posted: 15 November 2012 at 2:14am
	Mahdi Said In short, you have no problem with Jesus insulting a woman in need for the simple fault of being a non Jew. To each their own. My Reply In short you have no problem with the Quran referring to non Muslims as dogs, donkeys, pigs, beasts and apes. Secondly who says it was an insult? The actual word in the Greek is “puppies”. The image Jesus has chosen is an image of endearment, not insult. The picture of supper-time, with little kids at the table, and their pet puppies at their feet, maybe tugging on their robes for food or play. The puppies, dear to the children and probably so too to Jesus.
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 278	Posted: 15 November 2012 at 2:16am
	*Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke* Experiental said; God ignoring the non Jew is your personal opinion. Yes, the God of the Bible never masterminded the annihilation, genocide, massacre and ethnic cleansing of non israelite nations. I totally made all that up. Yes Mohammad your Prophet was a man of the sword who masterminded the bloody torture and murder of the men of Ukl or Uraynah. He showed the example when at the at the Battle Trench (also called The Battle of Ahzap or the Seige of Medina.) when he executed all the adult males of the city. And took the women and children into slavery. And how Muslim are men allowed sex with their slave girls and captured women. Islam holds no moral high ground! What happened to the non Jews God also brought about on the Jewish people through the Assyrians, Babylonians and Romans. So there was no favoritism there. In terms of the Canaanites the Bible is clear in that God was exceedingly patient with them in regards to their idol worship which also involved the abominable practice of sacrificing their children into the fires of their Gods. Genesis 15.16 shows God was watching the Canaanites very closely and waiting for them to change. Also Canaan had a final forty-year countdown as they heard of the events in Egypt, at the crossing of the Reed Sea, and what happened to the kings who opposed Israel along the way. Remember God knew the Canaanite Cults were dangerously contaminating and if this wasn’t controlled the Messianic prophesies through Abraham, Isaac, David and ultimately Jesus The Mesiah would be at risk.
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 278	Posted: 15 November 2012 at 2:18am
	Mahi Said Am i right to say that you think the massacres of the nations in canaan were fully justified? My Reply There is much I do not understand about God. Am I right to say you supported the actions of Mohammad in his war mongering? Which side would you have taken in all the civil wars and jihads throughout your Muslim “Golden Era” and beyond? Do you think you might have been awarded a slave girl for your jihadi efforts?
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Salaam_Erin Male Christian Groupie Joined: 30 October 2012 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 41	Posted: 15 November 2012 at 6:41am
	Mahdi, you need to read the whole of Jesus' lecture to the disciples in Matthew 10. In verses 5-6 Jesus tells them as He is sending them out to represent them in His own mission, not to go into Gentile territories or Samaritan towns but the lost sheep of Israel. This is with reference to geography then. He therefore wants them to stick to Judaea and Galilee. However, He goes on to warn them about the long term future of their mission. In verse 17 He then warns the disciples that many Jews will reject them and that they will be expelled from the synagogue. In verse 18 He then says they will go out to the Gentiles. "On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles." You see, you have to consider what Jesus' preaching and teaching mission was about. It was about to get the Jews back to obeying the Torah and proclaiming the Kingdom of God and the New Covenant. Then, the Jews were to go out to the Gentiles. In Matthew 10 Jesus sends them on a training mission to Jews only, but warns them that in the future they will be persecuted, driven out of synagogues and end up before governors and kings and be witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. That doesn't mean that the mission to the Jews is over though. For Jesus goes on to say in verse 23, "I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes." At the end of His mission, as He is about to Ascend into Heaven, on more than one occasion Jesus then gives His disciples that wider mission as predicted in verse 18 which went beyond the training programme of verses 5-6. Look at Matthew 28:18-20 and Acts 1:6-9. After all, Jesus did heal the Syro-Phoenician woman's daughter, the centurion's servant, the royal official's son, and many people who came from Tyre and Sidon to be healed, and a Samaritan leper.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1333	Posted: 15 November 2012 at 11:46am
	*Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke* Luke was not there. 1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, ²Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; ³It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, ⁴That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
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Larry Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 16 April 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 632	Posted: 15 November 2012 at 11:44pm
	Good and accurate reply, Caringheart. Maybe if more Muslims took the time to read the Bible instead of trying to discredit it at every turn, they might come to know the Love and Salvation of Jesus Christ the True and Everlasting Messiah, at One with the God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. *Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke* Luke was not there. <p ="chapter-1"><span id="en-KJV-24895" ="text Luke-1-1"><span ="chapternum">1 </span>Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,</span> <span id="en-KJV-24896" ="text Luke-1-2"><sup ="versenum">2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;</span> <span id="en-KJV-24897" ="text Luke-1-3"><sup ="versenum">3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,</span> <span id="en-KJV-24898" ="text Luke-1-4"><sup ="versenum">4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.</span>
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Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 257	Posted: 16 November 2012 at 9:21am
	*Originally posted by Experiential* <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Mahdi Said<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">In short, you have no problem with Jesus insulting a woman in need for the simple fault of being a non Jew. To each their own. <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><FONT face="Times New Roman">My Reply<o:p></o:p> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">In short you have no problem with the Quran referring to non Muslims as dogs, donkeys, pigs, beasts and apes. <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><o:p><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </o:p> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Secondly who says it was an insult?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The actual word in the Greek is “puppies”. The image Jesus has chosen is an image of endearment, not insult. The picture of supper-time, with little kids at the table, and their pet puppies at their feet, maybe tugging on their robes for food or play. The puppies, dear to the children and probably so too to Jesus. 1.Answer my question. 2.Reinterpret your own version of the Bible to justify your translation otherwise you are making baseless claims. Have you even read the verse? Matthew 15:26 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. Please, if you want to engage in serious discussions, desist from making such baseless arguments. DOG is the word. How are dogs described in old testament. One example For dogs have surrounded me; a gang of evildoers has closed in on me; they pierced my hands and my feet. Psalm 22:16 A gang of evildoers.
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