IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES

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Friendship

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Joined: 24 August 2008
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Posts: 872

Posted: 04 October 2012 at 5:38am

Assalamu alaikum.

What bothers me with the Christians is they are not ready to reason by examining their scriptures and what was written on it by their authorities. There is no authority believing in what they are trying to cover. We are looking for a peaceful environment but the Christians seems to dislike that. Pointing out such discrepancies and uncertainties regarding Christianity does not mean a denigration of anything. I believe in Jesus son of Maryam as a Messenger and Prophet and as such I must protect him from saying something that disagrees with what was revealed before him on the platform of one God. I have had a lot of discussions with the Jews and it seems they are more ready to accept Muhammad provided the followers of Muhammad behaved better.

My advise to the organizers of this forum is to have a separate forum between the Muslims and Jews. We cannot go further by the time those who do not believe in Allah, disbelieved in the Torah and refuse to reason join the forum. How can a person without a foot walk and a hand grasp something?

An Arab poet said:

إن البناء اذا بنى على غير اس لم يكد يأ تدل

Meaning: any structure not built or standing on a sound/ strong foundation is bound to collapse.

There are also parables in the NT confirming this poetary.

Let the Christians realize that we are not supporting any name tied to the Sunna of Muhammad except the pure and exemplary teaching of Muhammad. Muhammad did not teach for example Wahabism or any ism nor called one ahl-al-sunna wal jama'at or gave his grandchildren positions above other human beings. There is not concept of foreigners or gentiles in his Sunna. We are aware of the position given to Banu Hashim that they do not accept Sadaqat and that he appeals to us to be kind to them.

If we want peace, then those who want to establish it from the followers of Muhammad must be supported by all. We are not looking for worldly positions or any fame. We can hand over the keys to all the oil wells in the world to those who helped in establishing the Caliphate.

The time for joking, jesting and hair-splitting argument is over. It is time we face the ways and means we can fight recession, unemployment al-qaeeda and Taliban.

Friendship.

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Caringheart

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Posts: 1310

Posted: 04 October 2012 at 11:59am

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Abu Loren,

Can you tell me exactly what it is you disagree with in the teaching of Paul?

Thanks,
Caringheart

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Caringheart

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Posts: 1310

Posted: 04 October 2012 at 12:14pm

Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

I have had a lot of discussions with the Jews and it seems they are more ready to accept Muhammad provided the followers of Muhammad behaved better.

My advise to the organizers of this forum is to have a separate forum between the Muslims and Jews.

An Arab poet said:

إن البناء اذا بنى على غير اس لم يكد يأ تدل

Meaning: any structure not built or standing on a sound/ strong foundation is bound to collapse.

There is not concept of foreigners or gentiles in his Sunna. We are aware of the position given to Banu Hashim that they do not accept Sadaqat and that he appeals to us to be kind to them.

Friendship.

Greetings Friendship,

Is it possible to engage the people of Judaism in discussion? Where do you go to engage them? I too, have tried to find them to seek their views.

Regarding;

إن البناء اذا بنى على غير اس لم يكد يأ تدل
Meaning: any structure not built or standing on a sound/ strong foundation is bound to collapse.

I believe you put the cart before the horse...
this was a teaching of Jesus. Who came first Jesus, or the poet?

"There is not concept of foreigners or gentiles in his Sunna. We are aware of the position given to Banu Hashim that they do not accept Sadaqat and that he appeals to us to be kind to them. "

I respectfully have to disagree with that statement, but I appreciate the efforts you are trying to make in the cause of peace between people.

Salaam, Caringheart

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Friendship

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Joined: 24 August 2008
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Posts: 872

Posted: 04 October 2012 at 10:07pm

Assalamu alaika Caringheart.

It is the duty of you in Europe to do so. I have met them so many times and they love Muslims who are intelligent and non violent. They are however marginalized.
You said: I believe you put the cart before the horse...
this was a teaching of Jesus. Who came first Jesus, or the poet?
Response. Note that as I have been trying to emphasize true Islam does not exclude a single letter from what Allah revealed to Jesus. I think in another thread I explained that. Are you saying that the way Abraham circumcised himself, Ishmael first was different from the way he circumcised Isaac and Jacob, Essau later? Was the first son at the age of 96 different from the second son at the age of 100. Let us stop joking please. We are adults and not children!
Caringheart! Note that it is not the Qur'an that is the source of peace. You speak English fluently, but you must go to a doctor to prescribe for you. You must go to a surgeon to operate on you. There are many branches of surgery. IT IS CERTAINLY THE SUNNA THAT IS THE LIFE HISTORY OF MUHAMMAD THE ARBITRATOR OF PEACE. YOU ARE DECEIVED BY THE WAHABIS AND SALAFIS TO READ THE QUR'AN. YOU WILL ONLY UNDERSTAND IT IN THE UNIVERSITY. FOR EXAMPLE DO YOU UNDERSTAND EMBROYOLOGY OUTSIDE A UNIVERSITY. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE STRUCTURE OF UTERUS AND ITS HISTOLOGY BLOOD AND NERVOUS SUPPLY OTHER THAN IN THE UNIVERSITY! DID MUHAMMAD TELL YOU THE NUMBER OF SPERM CELLS, THEIR MORPHOLOGY, VISCOSITY ETC? ALLAH MENTIONED INFERTILITY, DID HE OR MUHAMMAD TELL YOU THE CAUSES? BRING A MUSLIM DOCTOR, A JEW AN ATHEIST HUMANIST TOGETHER. WILL THEY DIFFER IN THE CAUSES OF INFERTILITY?
Your rejecting the Sunna of Muhammad is the cause of terrorism.
THE WEST IS THE AXIS OF EVIL AND SOURCE OF TERRORISM AND NOT TRUE FOLLOWERS OF MUHAMMAD WHO UNDERSTOOD HIS LIFE HISTORY.

FRIENDSHIP.

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Mahdi The Seeke
Male
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Joined: 28 July 2011
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Posts: 253

Posted: 04 October 2012 at 11:11pm

Mahdi Said Let us look at some more
information. Matthew 10:23
When they persecute you in
one town, flee to the next, for
truly, I say to you, you will not
have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son
of Man comes.
Maybe all nations = Israel My Reply Mahdi. Its true - they actually
did not go through all the
towns of Israel before the Son
of Man came, because the Son
of Man did come - after his
resurrection.

Very good answer Experiential.

Matthew 10 New International Version
(NIV) Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave
them authority to drive out
impure spirits and to heal
every disease and sickness. 2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon
(who is called Peter) and his
brother Andrew; James son of
Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax
collector; James son of
Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following
instructions: “Do not go
among the Gentiles or enter
any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of
heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead,
cleanse those who have
leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received;
freely give. 9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in
your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or
sandals or a staff, for the
worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for
some worthy person and stay
at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your
peace rest on it; if it is not, let
your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you
or listen to your words, leave
that home or town and shake
the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more
bearable for Sodom and
Gomorrah on the day of
judgment than for that town. 16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.
Therefore be as shrewd as
snakes and as innocent as
doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the
local councils and be flogged
in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought
before governors and kings as
witnesses to them and to the
Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about
what to say or how to say it.
At that time you will be given
what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit
of your Father speaking
through you. 21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father
his child; children will rebel
against their parents and have
them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because
of me, but the one who stands
firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another.
Truly I tell you, you will not
finish going through the
towns of Israel before the Son
of Man comes.

By claiming the last statement of the scripture is talking about Jesus ressurection, you are making him a liar and false prophet. Unless you can prove all the things he predicted in the quoted scripture happened before his ressurection. Who is taking verses out of context now?

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Mahdi The Seeke
Male
Senior Member

Joined: 28 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253

Posted: 04 October 2012 at 11:20pm

Look at the
ridiculous beginning to this
thread as an example of a
Muslim being self-centered, biased with an agenda of
assumption of superiority and
not knowledgeable in
Hebrew / Greek language and
the history of Israel and
Christianity.

Experiential, thank you very much for this description. You know me oh so well.

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Mahdi The Seeke
Male
Senior Member

Joined: 28 July 2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 253

Posted: 05 October 2012 at 12:36am

Experiential, you are simply making excuses for Peter. There is nothing for Peter to fear if Jesus told him to go to all nations. So he is more afraid of criticism from his fellow disciples than his master. That rsises another question. Why would his fellow disciples(i.e James) object to him associating with gentiles if he was following Jesus instructions to teach all creation? Even when visiting Cornelius, Peter did not say that 'Jesus told us to teach all nations' but refees to a vision. Jesus never told his disciples to go first to jews then gentiles. Quote the appropriate scripture if i am wrong. What i am trying to establish is that based on the behaviour of the disciples in the verses i quoted, Jesus never instructed them to teach 'all creation' as in Matthew 28:18. The evidence is consistent with statements in Matthew 10:5-6 and Matthew 15:24.

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Abu Loren
Male Islam
Senior Member
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Joined: 29 June 2012
Location: United Arab Emirates
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 568

Posted: 05 October 2012 at 8:24am

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Abu Loren,Can you tell me exactly what it is you disagree with in the teaching of Paul? Thanks,Caringheart

Every single word he wrote down because they are not the teachings of Jesus (pbuh) but his own words, he did not see a 'vision' of the risen Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was NEVER crucified. Paul is a liar and a fraud. He helped billions of people to go to hell throughout history by twisting the mission of Jesus (pbuh) and changing and destroying the Mosaic Law. He will rot in hell forever.

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Topic: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES
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Author	Message
Friendship Senior Member Joined: 24 August 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 872	Posted: 04 October 2012 at 5:38am
	Assalamu alaikum. What bothers me with the Christians is they are not ready to reason by examining their scriptures and what was written on it by their authorities. There is no authority believing in what they are trying to cover. We are looking for a peaceful environment but the Christians seems to dislike that. Pointing out such discrepancies and uncertainties regarding Christianity does not mean a denigration of anything. I believe in Jesus son of Maryam as a Messenger and Prophet and as such I must protect him from saying something that disagrees with what was revealed before him on the platform of one God. I have had a lot of discussions with the Jews and it seems they are more ready to accept Muhammad provided the followers of Muhammad behaved better. My advise to the organizers of this forum is to have a separate forum between the Muslims and Jews. We cannot go further by the time those who do not believe in Allah, disbelieved in the Torah and refuse to reason join the forum. How can a person without a foot walk and a hand grasp something? An Arab poet said: إن البناء اذا بنى على غير اس لم يكد يأ تدل Meaning: any structure not built or standing on a sound/ strong foundation is bound to collapse. There are also parables in the NT confirming this poetary. Let the Christians realize that we are not supporting any name tied to the Sunna of Muhammad except the pure and exemplary teaching of Muhammad. Muhammad did not teach for example Wahabism or any ism nor called one ahl-al-sunna wal jama'at or gave his grandchildren positions above other human beings. There is not concept of foreigners or gentiles in his Sunna. We are aware of the position given to Banu Hashim that they do not accept Sadaqat and that he appeals to us to be kind to them. If we want peace, then those who want to establish it from the followers of Muhammad must be supported by all. We are not looking for worldly positions or any fame. We can hand over the keys to all the oil wells in the world to those who helped in establishing the Caliphate. The time for joking, jesting and hair-splitting argument is over. It is time we face the ways and means we can fight recession, unemployment al-qaeeda and Taliban. Friendship.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 04 October 2012 at 11:59am
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* Abu Loren, Can you tell me exactly what it is you disagree with in the teaching of Paul? Thanks, Caringheart
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1310	Posted: 04 October 2012 at 12:14pm
	*Originally posted by Friendship* Assalamu alaikum. I have had a lot of discussions with the Jews and it seems they are more ready to accept Muhammad provided the followers of Muhammad behaved better. My advise to the organizers of this forum is to have a separate forum between the Muslims and Jews. An Arab poet said: إن البناء اذا بنى على غير اس لم يكد يأ تدل Meaning: any structure not built or standing on a sound/ strong foundation is bound to collapse. There is not concept of foreigners or gentiles in his Sunna. We are aware of the position given to Banu Hashim that they do not accept Sadaqat and that he appeals to us to be kind to them. Friendship. Greetings Friendship, Is it possible to engage the people of Judaism in discussion? Where do you go to engage them? I too, have tried to find them to seek their views. Regarding; إن البناء اذا بنى على غير اس لم يكد يأ تدل Meaning: any structure not built or standing on a sound/ strong foundation is bound to collapse. I believe you put the cart before the horse... this was a teaching of Jesus. Who came first Jesus, or the poet? "There is not concept of foreigners or gentiles in his Sunna. We are aware of the position given to Banu Hashim that they do not accept Sadaqat and that he appeals to us to be kind to them. " I respectfully have to disagree with that statement, but I appreciate the efforts you are trying to make in the cause of peace between people. Salaam, Caringheart
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Friendship Senior Member Joined: 24 August 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 872	Posted: 04 October 2012 at 10:07pm
	Assalamu alaika Caringheart. It is the duty of you in Europe to do so. I have met them so many times and they love Muslims who are intelligent and non violent. They are however marginalized. You said: I believe you put the cart before the horse... this was a teaching of Jesus. Who came first Jesus, or the poet? Response. Note that as I have been trying to emphasize true Islam does not exclude a single letter from what Allah revealed to Jesus. I think in another thread I explained that. Are you saying that the way Abraham circumcised himself, Ishmael first was different from the way he circumcised Isaac and Jacob, Essau later? Was the first son at the age of 96 different from the second son at the age of 100. Let us stop joking please. We are adults and not children! Caringheart! Note that it is not the Qur'an that is the source of peace. You speak English fluently, but you must go to a doctor to prescribe for you. You must go to a surgeon to operate on you. There are many branches of surgery. IT IS CERTAINLY THE SUNNA THAT IS THE LIFE HISTORY OF MUHAMMAD THE ARBITRATOR OF PEACE. YOU ARE DECEIVED BY THE WAHABIS AND SALAFIS TO READ THE QUR'AN. YOU WILL ONLY UNDERSTAND IT IN THE UNIVERSITY. FOR EXAMPLE DO YOU UNDERSTAND EMBROYOLOGY OUTSIDE A UNIVERSITY. HOW DO YOU KNOW THE STRUCTURE OF UTERUS AND ITS HISTOLOGY BLOOD AND NERVOUS SUPPLY OTHER THAN IN THE UNIVERSITY! DID MUHAMMAD TELL YOU THE NUMBER OF SPERM CELLS, THEIR MORPHOLOGY, VISCOSITY ETC? ALLAH MENTIONED INFERTILITY, DID HE OR MUHAMMAD TELL YOU THE CAUSES? BRING A MUSLIM DOCTOR, A JEW AN ATHEIST HUMANIST TOGETHER. WILL THEY DIFFER IN THE CAUSES OF INFERTILITY? Your rejecting the Sunna of Muhammad is the cause of terrorism. THE WEST IS THE AXIS OF EVIL AND SOURCE OF TERRORISM AND NOT TRUE FOLLOWERS OF MUHAMMAD WHO UNDERSTOOD HIS LIFE HISTORY. FRIENDSHIP.
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Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 253	Posted: 04 October 2012 at 11:11pm
	Mahdi Said Let us look at some more information. Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Maybe all nations = Israel My Reply Mahdi. Its true - they actually did not go through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man came, because the Son of Man did come - after his resurrection. Very good answer Experiential. Matthew 10 New International Version (NIV) Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness. 2 These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give. 9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. By claiming the last statement of the scripture is talking about Jesus ressurection, you are making him a liar and false prophet. Unless you can prove all the things he predicted in the quoted scripture happened before his ressurection. Who is taking verses out of context now?
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Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 253	Posted: 04 October 2012 at 11:20pm
	Look at the ridiculous beginning to this thread as an example of a Muslim being self-centered, biased with an agenda of assumption of superiority and not knowledgeable in Hebrew / Greek language and the history of Israel and Christianity. Experiential, thank you very much for this description. You know me oh so well.
	IP Logged

Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 253	Posted: 05 October 2012 at 12:36am
	Experiential, you are simply making excuses for Peter. There is nothing for Peter to fear if Jesus told him to go to all nations. So he is more afraid of criticism from his fellow disciples than his master. That rsises another question. Why would his fellow disciples(i.e James) object to him associating with gentiles if he was following Jesus instructions to teach all creation? Even when visiting Cornelius, Peter did not say that 'Jesus told us to teach all nations' but refees to a vision. Jesus never told his disciples to go first to jews then gentiles. Quote the appropriate scripture if i am wrong. What i am trying to establish is that based on the behaviour of the disciples in the verses i quoted, Jesus never instructed them to teach 'all creation' as in Matthew 28:18. The evidence is consistent with statements in Matthew 10:5-6 and Matthew 15:24.
	IP Logged

Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 05 October 2012 at 8:24am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Abu Loren* Abu Loren,Can you tell me exactly what it is you disagree with in the teaching of Paul? Thanks,Caringheart Every single word he wrote down because they are not the teachings of Jesus (pbuh) but his own words, he did not see a 'vision' of the risen Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was NEVER crucified. Paul is a liar and a fraud. He helped billions of people to go to hell throughout history by twisting the mission of Jesus (pbuh) and changing and destroying the Mosaic Law. He will rot in hell forever.
	IP Logged