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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES Post Reply Post New Topic
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 20 February 2013 at 7:33pm
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never turned human beings into animals because they broke faith with Him or turned away from Him. How could God change His own creation, made in His own image, by turning them into dumb beasts? It is an absurd thought and belief. It is like Judaiasm and Christianity who do not threaten people with death if they abandon their Judaism or Christianity, as Muslims believe, that is between them and God. It is not for mankind to murder people who they feel do not sufficiently honor and worship "Allah," even if that is what "Allah" supposedly commands in the Qur'an. The discrepancies and conflicting statements in the Qur'an, of which there are many, as well as mistakes regarding specific people first writtn of in the Old Testament, convince me that "Allah" of ther Qur'an is in no way connected to the God of the Jews and Christians. If the 66 authors of the Bible, living at diffent times and in many different places, can create a work such as the Bible that is remarkably consistent in it's contents, while the Qur'an, supposedly "revealed" to only one "prophet," has numerous contradictions, discrepancies and flat-out mistakes, then I think the answer for which "book," Bible or Qur'an, is the Truth is rather easy to conclude. The Qur'an is based on a 7th century pagan Arab mindset and culture, and is not easily reconciled to modern thinking or modern freedoms. Islam is categorically in opposition to the ideas of freedom of thought, religion (even with the statement that "there is no compulsion in religion"), democracy, and modern legal principles that are based upon precedent and settled case law, not by what is written in a religious book such as the Qur'an (Shariah, for example) that is an arbitrary legal system that can be applied in vastly different ways by vastly different religious "judges." The very idea that anyone would be instructed, by their religious text and belief, to cut off the hands or feet of a human being for a crime such as theft, for example, is morally repugnant and entirely rejected by the Western world. Mediaeval concepts of religion and justice belong to the past, not the modern world. This is one of the reasons why Islam has made such little progress over the last 1,400 years in the Western world.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 20 February 2013 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring,
and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one
shepherd.


17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

(the words of Jesus)

19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

“Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out the demons. Freely you have received, freely give. Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep." (Matthew 10:5)


Greetings Mahdi,

14 Afterward He appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

15 And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


You just don't want to see,
While He was with them He taught to the Jews.
After His ascension the Word was to go out to all the world.

and I'm still curious, what is your argument...
What is your beef?
Is it not a good thing that Jesus' message reaches all the world?

Salaam,
CH

Edited by Caringheart - 20 February 2013 at 10:59pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2013 at 12:04am
Assalamu alaikum Larry etc.

If the members of this forum are really intelligent and are looking for a solution in what they do do not understand and see done wrongly, it is better they listen to those who know and then make up their minds. Those criticizing Islam in particular what Muhammad taught and practiced are the least qualified to do so for they do not have a single root or its bud to do so. Let them go back to school and learn Arabic language in all  its branches that will make them understand what Muhammad did. If they cannot do that, there are books in English language to help them and lead them to understanding the life of Muhammad. One will then know that Muhammad never claimed to bring a code of conduct that is knew to the world or unknown to those living with him. These were the Levi tribes and their clans of the children of Israel in Madina between the time they arrived to 629 AD and those who called themselves Christians living in Yaman. Muhammad emphasized that if one is looking for a solution and fails to find it from his code of conduct, let him refer to the Talmud for that solution. In all fairness and serenity, what is the justification in accusing Muhammad?
Just today, John Kerry emphasized USA foreign policy on education and looking inwards. Larry and Co, remember that Muhammad was first commanded to read. No Messenger if you believed in that ever received that command. That form of education is for the world and not the then Quraysh nor the Levis. In the same manner scientists are going to work on an early warning system to detect asteroid, let us do the same in looking for  SYSTEM to live together and in peace. Certainly, Muhammad achieved that to the disdain and rejection of you Larry and the rest. It will take about 2 years before the scientists develop the prototype but it will just take 2 days to find that solution for the world from the book in website spbra.com//allamadrsanisalihmustapha. It should be read by the Westerners are looking for a stable and peaceful world. 
Lastly, note that the appointment of the females Consultative Council by the Saudi Monarchy regarded and accepted as a model of the teaching of Muhammad by the most powerful Western civilization is against the practice of Muhammad. Had John Kerry learned Arabic and enjoyed the freedom of speech in asking seeking and knocking (Matth 7:7), he would have known that. Had Senator John Kerry believed in the Talmud he is bound to question that and by reflecting on the selection made by Moses in choosing those to spy the holy land would claim the superiority of the Talmud in justice and equity over the practice of Muhammad. He would them advice the Saudis to follow their way or else face sanction.  Western press would then support him in ridiculing Muhammad. But what are you going to do?
There is no sense and wisdom in what you and your cohorts are doing. Equally there is no sense and wisdom in becoming ignorant to the teaching of Muhammad. Unless we agree to follow the advice of Muhammad- get educated to choose and refuse and be free from the clutches of slavery, you will ever remain as a slave.

Friendship.

 
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2013 at 1:30am
Originally posted by Caringheart




Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And
other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring,
and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one
shepherd.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

18 No
man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay
it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I
received of my Father.

(the words of Jesus)

19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.


“Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out the demons. Freely you have received, freely give. Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep." (Matthew 10:5)
Greetings Mahdi,

<span id="en-KJV-24888" ="text="" mark-16-14"=""><sup ="versenum"="">14 Afterward He appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them
with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not
them which had seen him after he was risen.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24889" ="text="" mark-16-15"=""><sup ="versenum"="">15 And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24890" ="text="" mark-16-16"=""><sup ="versenum"="">16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-24890" ="text="" mark-16-16"=""></span>

You just don't want to see,While He was with them He taught to the Jews.After His ascension the Word was to go out to all the world.and I'm still curious, what is your argument...What is your beef? Is it not a good thing that Jesus' message reaches all the world?Salaam,CH
now you are quoting fraudulent bible verses.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2013 at 6:44pm
Nothing fraudulent there. Smile

and I'm still curious, what is your argument...
What is your beef?
Is it not a good thing that Jesus' message reaches all the world?
Question


Edited by Caringheart - 21 February 2013 at 6:46pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2013 at 8:59pm
Just jumped into the thread, wonder if it's worth reading 33 pages.
 
In case it was an issue, I'm not an Israelite.
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Friendship
 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2013 at 1:02am
Muhammad teaches that if a name is mentioned in the Qur'an that is to serve as practical guide, a lead.The Israelites are mentioned because they were the civilization (human beings) chosen by the Creator of the heavens and the earth to teach to human beings His Laws and what is required from them. Human beings must be trained. Their behavior serves as a lesson to the next generation on how to behave and obey the Lord. Other names not in the Talmud are the Ad, the People of Shu'aib, Salih, Zulqarnain. There prophets were not from the children of Jacob and thus not mentioned in the Talmud. Luqman the wise was not also mentioned.
Generally, Muhammad was not understood because he is not from the family of Jacob.  I am not an Israelite by birth, but my conduct behavior and the future after my death is governed by the Talmudic story. The 613 positive and negative commands are my Laws also. Spiritually, we are all Israelites.

Friendship
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2013 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum Larry etc.

If the members of this forum are really intelligent and are looking for a solution in what they do do not understand and see done wrongly, it is better they listen to those who know and then make up their minds. Those criticizing Islam in particular what Muhammad taught and practiced are the least qualified to do so for they do not have a single root or its bud to do so. Let them go back to school and learn Arabic language in all  its branches that will make them understand what Muhammad did. If they cannot do that, there are books in English language to help them and lead them to understanding the life of Muhammad. One will then know that Muhammad never claimed to bring a code of conduct that is knew to the world or unknown to those living with him. These were the Levi tribes and their clans of the children of Israel in Madina between the time they arrived to 629 AD and those who called themselves Christians living in Yaman. Muhammad emphasized that if one is looking for a solution and fails to find it from his code of conduct, let him refer to the Talmud for that solution. In all fairness and serenity, what is the justification in accusing Muhammad?
Just today, John Kerry emphasized USA foreign policy on education and looking inwards. Larry and Co, remember that Muhammad was first commanded to read. No Messenger if you believed in that ever received that command. That form of education is for the world and not the then Quraysh nor the Levis. In the same manner scientists are going to work on an early warning system to detect asteroid, let us do the same in looking for  SYSTEM to live together and in peace. Certainly, Muhammad achieved that to the disdain and rejection of you Larry and the rest. It will take about 2 years before the scientists develop the prototype but it will just take 2 days to find that solution for the world from the book in website spbra.com//allamadrsanisalihmustapha. It should be read by the Westerners are looking for a stable and peaceful world. 
Lastly, note that the appointment of the females Consultative Council by the Saudi Monarchy regarded and accepted as a model of the teaching of Muhammad by the most powerful Western civilization is against the practice of Muhammad. Had John Kerry learned Arabic and enjoyed the freedom of speech in asking seeking and knocking (Matth 7:7), he would have known that. Had Senator John Kerry believed in the Talmud he is bound to question that and by reflecting on the selection made by Moses in choosing those to spy the holy land would claim the superiority of the Talmud in justice and equity over the practice of Muhammad. He would them advice the Saudis to follow their way or else face sanction.  Western press would then support him in ridiculing Muhammad. But what are you going to do?
There is no sense and wisdom in what you and your cohorts are doing. Equally there is no sense and wisdom in becoming ignorant to the teaching of Muhammad. Unless we agree to follow the advice of Muhammad- get educated to choose and refuse and be free from the clutches of slavery, you will ever remain as a slave.

Friendship.

 
 
Thank you for your "Christians must bend" post. Christians I've seen on this site so far are not led by the western press. They've done their homework. You should acknowledge the bend it is for a Christian to come learn from a Muslim site. Your post is for street Christians.
 
Threads, posts and responses go in cycles. for a while everyone looks for similarities, then it turns to differences, some times people get irked, some tell their true feelings, someone doesn't like it, then someone pops in with a cure-all post.
 
Ya gotta look at the st**idity in the title for starters, then check out the dietary laws thread where Christians are expected to be Israelites...
 
I'd bet Mahdi the seeker sits back and LOL's at what he's started.
 
 
 
 
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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