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Message Icon Topic: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES Post Reply Post New Topic
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:24pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Experiential said;
My Reply

You seem to think God has no regard for non Jewish peoples. That is not the case. Where does the “thorn in the side” thing come from ?

While reading the following Bible quotes,please keep in mind that according to the trinity, Jesus=God and he existed since the beginning of time. Witness Jesus love and mercy.

1. [/B1 Samuel 15 King James Version (KJV) Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Sucklings? Commanded by Jesus? Enough said.
Besides, seems like a tribal war of revenge.' they treated our ancestors badly when we were weak. Now that were are strong, let us take vengeance'. And what a savage vengeance.

2. NUMBERS 21 gives an account of a sequence of massacres supported by Jesus. Whole tribes wiped out and their lands taken. Is it only Israelites who have a right to live?

3.Conquest of Canaan. Did Jesus tell the tribes settled there that the land was reserved for Israel? Did Jesus ask them to leave and they refused? Did Jesus have to 'give' the Israelites land already occupied? Could he not have reserved the land for them while they were enslaved? Did the tribes take the land forcefully from Israel? Did the tribes attack Israel in the wilderness or were the Israelites the invaders?

Wars of israel were tribal wars. When they were strong, they conquered other lands and when they were weak they were conquered, just like many civilisations in history. They self-styled themselves as the chosen people of the the Creator of the world. If they are correct, then Jesus was very tribalistic indeed.

I hope you can now see how much Jesus loved gentiles from the time Israel as a nation was created.


*******************************************************

   Does anyone understand what "Mahdi's" point is supposed to be in his remarks? I sure don't.

   In regard to who God selected to be His "chosen people," it is the Children of Israel, which both the Bible and Qur'an document. Also, Jesus was not born until cenruries after the Books of Samuel and Numbers were written, so I don't see how he could have "supported" any of the Biblical examples you provided. Your complete misunderstanding of the Doctrine of the Trinity is painfully obvious.

Edited by Larry - 07 November 2012 at 11:25pm
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2012 at 7:01pm
Hi Larry,

I have been trying to get an answer to that question from the beginning.  What point is it that Mahdi wants to make?

I've posed questions in the thread with no answers.

Does he think that Jesus does not lead gentiles to God?  was one of my questions.

???
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2012 at 11:03pm
Larry said;
Also,
Jesus was not born until cenruries after the Books of
Samuel and Numbers were
written, so I don't see how
he could have "supported"
any of the Biblical examples
you provided. Your complete misunderstanding of the
Doctrine of the Trinity is
painfully obvious.

So, before Jesus was born, 'God' was an incomplete bi-unity of two, then the Father sent the Holy Spirit to make Mary 'Mother of God' conceive and 'God' was completed when Jesus was born?
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 08 November 2012 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Hi Larry,I have been trying to get an answer to that question from the beginning. What point is it that Mahdi wants to make?I've posed questions in the thread with no answers.Does he think that Jesus does not lead gentiles to God? was one of my questions.???


Jesus was sent to the Israelites just like all the Israelite prophets before him. Read my previous posts to see the evidence i have presented for my point of view.

Edited by Mahdi The Seeke - 08 November 2012 at 11:54pm
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Larry
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2012 at 12:25am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Hi Larry,I have been trying to get an answer to that question from the beginning.  What point is it that Mahdi wants to make?I've posed questions in the thread with no answers.Does he think that Jesus does not lead gentiles to God?  was one of my questions.???


Caringheart,

   "Mahdi" seems to think that if Jesus had not been born before the writings in the Old Testament that it means that God and the Holy Spirit ONLY existed "together" prior to the birth of Jesus Christ, making it a "Duality" rather than a Trinity. As I said to him, his obvious and complete misunderstanding of the Doctrine of the Trinity is painfully obvious. People like "Mahdi" and SOME other Muslims, continue to insist that the Holy Trinity is composed of three separate gods, which is typical of someone whose religion was born out of Arab paganism and it's 360 idols in the Kaaba (one, the famous "Black Stone" is the only remaining original idol which was worshipped by the pagans in the Kaaba), before the coming of Muhammad. Judaism and Christianity have ALWAYS believed in One and only One God. But Mahdi's literalism prevents his understanding this point.

Larry

Edited by Larry - 09 November 2012 at 9:46pm
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Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2012 at 12:45am
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Larry said;
Also,
Jesus was not born until cenruries after the Books of
Samuel and Numbers were
written, so I don't see how
he could have "supported"
any of the Biblical examples
you provided. Your complete misunderstanding of the
Doctrine of the Trinity is
painfully obvious.

So, before Jesus was born, 'God' was an incomplete bi-unity of two, then the Father sent the Holy Spirit to make Mary 'Mother of God' conceive and 'God' was completed when Jesus was born?


Mahdi,

   The Qur'an completely misrepresents the doctrine of the Trinity. The author of Sura 5:116 mistakenly thought that Christians worshipped three gods; the Father, The Mother (Mary) and the Son (Jesus). But Christians don't worship this doctrine of the Trinity at all. There was a heretical sect of Christianity called the Choloridians, who had a concept of the Trinity which included Mary, who would have been born in Arabia during the time of Muhammad. They are possibly the source for this obvious error.

   But even the Qur'an asserts that Mary conceived Jesus through the intercession of Allah, who only has to say "Be" and it is. But Mary was never part of the Holy Trinity, Mary, who was blessed, but was not God.

   The Bible also teaches that Jesus was conceived by Mary through the intercession of God Himself. When Jesus was born, one of His names was Em-man-u-el, which means "God with us." There are many prophecies made centuries earlier concerning the coming of the Messiah in the Old Testament, and even named the place, Bethlehem, where He was to be born, which was where Jesus WAS born. All of the prophets of the Bible made prophecies that all were fulfilled later by Jesus in the New Testament. And ALL the prophets were named, but there was NEVER a prophecy concerning a "prophet" to come who was named "Muhammad" or "Ahmed" or any other name like that. Why would the Bible name all the prophets, accurately, but be completely silent on the subject of the "seal of the prophets" to come? Because there were no further "prophets" after Jesus, Muhammad never made any specific prophecies at all, the Biblical standard for being a true prophet.

   You, as well as some other Muslims continue to believe that the Trinity consisted of three separate "gods." God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, are all of one substance, "they" are God. There is only one God.

Larry

Edited by Larry - 09 November 2012 at 9:48pm
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2012 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Experiential

<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Mahdi Said <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">SO the 'day of judgment' was the day the temple in <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Jerusalem</st1:place></st1:City> was destroyed in 70 AD. I guess we are all in heaven now.


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><FONT face="Times New Roman">My Reply<o:p></o:p>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Judgment began for the Jews in (Mathew 10) leading up to the Roman destruction of the temple in AD 70 (Mathew 24) and leading further to the judgment of the whole world that is still unfolding now. Not complete yet, but unfolding, with its conclusion at The Day of Judgment.


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" =Msonormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Judgment first for the Jew and then later for the non Jew.



Interesting opinion.
I thought we would be discussing points based in reality.
'First to the jew then gentile' is your personal opinion.
'Unfolding judgement' is your personal opinion. Unlike you, i bring up points based on what is written in the Bible. For example;
    Matthew 16:

27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man according to what he has done.

 

God ignoring the non Jew is your personal opinion.

And in terms of quoting scripture I have done so all the way through.

You weren’t even aware of all the scriptures about Gods purpose for the gentiles until I had to post them to you at the beginning of this thread.

You seem to be stuck in the book of Mathew. Have you read any other book than Mathew? You’ve only really moved from Mathew 10 to Mathew 16. Mathew 16 only proves my points. Why not try Mathew 24 or any of the other books.

Unfolding judgment is a biblical fact. Read about Gods unfolding judgment for the Canaanites and Jews in the book of Genesis.

 

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2012 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Experiential said;
My Reply

You seem to think God has no regard for non Jewish peoples. That is not the case. Where does the “thorn in the side” thing come from ?

While reading the following Bible quotes,please keep in mind that according to the trinity, Jesus=God and he existed since the beginning of time. Witness Jesus love and mercy.

1. [/B1 Samuel 15 King James Version (KJV) Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Sucklings? Commanded by Jesus? Enough said.
Besides, seems like a tribal war of revenge.' they treated our ancestors badly when we were weak. Now that were are strong, let us take vengeance'. And what a savage vengeance.

2. NUMBERS 21 gives an account of a sequence of massacres supported by Jesus. Whole tribes wiped out and their lands taken. Is it only Israelites who have a right to live?

3.Conquest of Canaan. Did Jesus tell the tribes settled there that the land was reserved for Israel? Did Jesus ask them to leave and they refused? Did Jesus have to 'give' the Israelites land already occupied? Could he not have reserved the land for them while they were enslaved? Did the tribes take the land forcefully from Israel? Did the tribes attack Israel in the wilderness or were the Israelites the invaders?

Wars of israel were tribal wars. When they were strong, they conquered other lands and when they were weak they were conquered, just like many civilisations in history. They self-styled themselves as the chosen people of the the Creator of the world. If they are correct, then Jesus was very tribalistic indeed.

I hope you can now see how much Jesus loved gentiles from the time Israel as a nation was created.

 Hello Mahdi

You raise a good question. However remember justice, life and death ultimately belong to God. One day all will be known and all tears will cease.

 

Bear in mind ,what happened to the Canaanites, God also brought about on the Jewish people through the Assyrians, Babylonians and Romans. So there was no favoritism there.

 

In terms of the Canaanites the Bible is clear in that God was exceedingly patient with them in regards to their idol worship which also involved the abominable practice of sacrificing their children into the fires of their Gods.

Genesis 15.16 shows God was watching the Canaanites very closely and waiting for them to change. Also Canaan had a final forty-year countdown as they heard of the events in Egypt, at the crossing of the Reed Sea, and what happened to the kings who opposed Israel along the way.

 

Also remember God knew the Canaanite Cults were dangerously contaminating and if this wasn’t controlled the Messianic prophesies through Abraham, Isaac, David and ultimately Jesus The Mesiah would be at risk.

 

Also Islam holds no moral high ground!

Mohammad was a man of the sword. For example Muhammad’s bloody torture and murder of the men of Ukl or Uraynah.

 

Or how Muslims fought the Jewish Quraysh tribe at the Battle Trench (also called The Battle of  Ahzap or the Seige of Medina.) and after winning, the prophet executed all the adult males of the city. Muslim sources put the number of the Jewish men who were beheaded in one day anywhere between 600 to 900. The women and children were divided up among the Islamic warriors and enslaved.

 

Or how about Muslim men allowed sex with their slave girls and captured women. Sura 70:22-30: and 23:5,6:  33:50

 

 

 



Edited by Experiential - 09 November 2012 at 7:18pm
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