IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES

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Caringheart

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Posted: 26 September 2012 at 12:15pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart

Greetings Friendship,While I still am not understanding the point you want to make regarding red letter writing, I was led by God to share this today...this is red letter writing... words of Jesus31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him. (Mark)11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John)Salaam,Caringheart

Caringheart, the trouble is one does not what is original verse and which are added later on, I'm sorry but we cannot rely on any of what you have posted. THE BIBLE IS CORRUPTED!

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 27 September 2012 at 6:27am

Originally posted by Caringheart

So Muhammad says to rely on the words of those who have gone before him and on the earlier scriptures, which are your scriptures too, yet tells you you have nowhere to go to find them?Would God leave his people in the dark this way?[/QUOTE]

CORRECTION! Muhammed (pbuh) does not say any such thing nor does the Holy Qur'an it only confirms that the Torah was revealed to Prophet Musa (pbuh) and the Injeel was revealed to Prophet Isa (pbuh).

God indeed does not leave humanity in the dark hence the need for the Holy Qur'an the Last and Final Testament from God Almighty to mankind.

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Friendship

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Posted: 27 September 2012 at 6:54am

Assalamu alaiku.

While it is indisputable that the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad lasted for about 23 years, there is proof of what that Tablet revealed to Moses contained. What was it exactly? My The Promise Study Edition is 1458 pages. Certainly pages 220-1458 were not a revelation to Moses the receiver of the Tablet. Pages 1-220 could not be also part of the Tablet.

I am again calling on members of this forum to be wiser and straightforward to achieve the objective of the forum. Muhammad was not sent to discuss what we are discussing. HE CAME TO UNITE THE WORLD UNDER A LOVING AND PEACEFUL ENVIRONMENT. HE INVITED ALL TO WORSHIP ONE G-D BY EACH NATION STICKING TO HIS LAWS SENT THROUGH RESPECTIVE MESSENGERS. WE MUST CORRECT EACH OTHER FOR THE LAWS OF THE G-D OF ABRAHAM ON PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE IS ONE.

If Muhammad's front is to confront the desires of people, how could he have obeyed the request of those who expelled him forcefully in sending forth their equals during the battle of Badr? If his way of life was confrontational he would never have done that. But he listened and obeyed the request of his enemies.

It is not possible for the Christians to understand the Qur'an for understanding it is governed by rules and regulations that are known only to those studying it. Secondly it is not possible to see its fruits practically for such fruits are only seen when the Law is applied to the latter. We have heard an Egyptian Muslim scholar taken to court for burning the Bible. Where in the history of Muhammad and his caliphs was the Torah burnt?

The Christians must change their strategy.

Friendship.

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Experiential

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Joined: 23 November 2010
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Posted: 27 September 2012 at 3:59pm

Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

I am yet to get a clear satisfactory explanation from the Christians on the difference bewteen SELF-PRONOUNCING RED LETTER EDITION AND OTHERS. In the self pronouncing red letter edition. Math 10:5, "Those twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying." is self pronouncing black letter edition. Therefore it is not the statement of Jesus son of Maryam. The rest are self pronouncing red letter. Therefore that was the statement of Jesus son of Maryam.

Matthew 28:18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying: Is self pronouncing black letter edition. That was not the statement of Jesus son of Maryam. Thwe res tare sel pronouncing red letter.

The important question is: If Moses was given the Torah under one sitting or one meeting, the followers of Jesus son of Maryam are depicting that Jesus son of Maryam was visited by angel Gabriel in the manner he visited Muhammad Rasulullah. But this is denied by Allah in the Qur'an 25:32, "Why is the Qur'an not sent in one go?"

I believe the Christians are creating stumbling block in refusing to understand that Muhammad did not come to deny the messengers before him. I will advise the folowers of Muhammad to take note of that and that whaever one reads from the Bible should make effort to know its arms from the Qur'an or hadith of the holy Apostle.

Let us give them the burden of proof that they do not like peace to reign.

Friendship.

Assalamu alaikum Friendship.

Do you remember me, I am David who was here quite a while ago. It is nice to be back discussing with you and I still remember your kind wishes when my country suffered the earthquake. Any way I hope I can help make things clear. Maybe we will never agree but I am sure there will always be respect.

Friendship, the red letter writing is nothing but a publishers gimmick. Just the same as some bibles have maps and pictures and some do not.

Friendship Said

The important question is: If Moses was given the Torah under one sitting or one meeting,

My Reply

Why is it so important to you whether Moses received the Torah in one meeting or not? Im not sure why that’s so important to you? Anyway if you read the life of Moses you will see he was in constant communication with God and received the Torah over a period of time.

Friendship Said

The followers of Jesus are depicting that Jesus was visited by the angel Gabriel in the manner he visited Muhammad. But this is denied by Allah in the Qur'an 25:32, "Why is the Qur'an not sent in one go?"

I believe the Christians are creating a stumbling block in refusing to understand that Muhammad did not come to deny the messengers before him.

I will advise the followers of Muhammad to take note of that and that whatever one reads from the Bible should make effort to know its arms from the Qur'an or hadith of the holy Apostle.

Let us give them the burden of proof that they do not like peace to reign.

My Reply

Jesus was not visited by Gabriele. Only Maryam was.

The contradictions between the Bible and Quaran speak for themselves. The contradictions between the two are the stumbling block.

Mohamads version of events in the Quaran contradicts the Injil so Christians do not accept it.

Edited by Experiential - 27 September 2012 at 10:34pm

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Experiential

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Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:07pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Caringheart, the trouble is one does not what is original verse and which are added later on, I'm sorry but we cannot rely on any of what you have posted. THE BIBLE IS CORRUPTED!

Abu Loren this is all conspiracy theory. Muslims don’t know what is original or added later because your Quaran is confused about the Injil. Muslims are never able to prove the conspiracy theory. I challenge you to tell me who changed the Injil ? Where ? When ? and why ?

You and your Quaran appear confused because even your Quaran confirms the New Testament is from God, so why would God allow a corrupted truth ??

Sura 19.30. He [Jesus] said, "Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet."

Sura 3:3. It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you (Muhammad) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).

Sura 5:46 states that the Injil was given to Jesus by Allah.

Sura 19:30 and 3:3 then clarify that the Injil is a book just as the Qur'an and the Torah are books that were sent down by Allah.

Why would God allow a corrupted truth ??

Edited by Experiential - 27 September 2012 at 10:32pm

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Experiential

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Joined: 23 November 2010
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Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:17pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following
instructions: “Do not go
among the Gentiles or enter
any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

VS

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said,
“All authority in heaven and on
earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
baptizing them in the name of
the Father and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey
everything I have commanded
you.

Sorry. My bad. Clearly no contradiction.

CLEARLY one is added much later, therefore the contradiction.

CLEARLY you just pick and choose verses that suit you. Have any of you ever read the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John from beginning to the end. If you had, you would get the context and see the verses do not contradict but actually complement each other. If you are worried about contradictions your Quaran is full of them.

Jesus came first for the Jew and then the non Jew.

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Experiential

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Joined: 23 November 2010
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Posts: 278

Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:34pm

Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaiku.

The Christians must change their strategy.

Friendship.

Friendship Said

While it is indisputable that the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad lasted for about 23 years,

My Reply

Indisputable ? The Quaran found in Sunna in Yemen in 1972 indicates the “revelation” Mohamad received was tampered with. Read the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana'a_manuscript

Friendship Said

My Reply

I agree with you Friendship. There is some truth to what you say. But I am not convinced the way of Mohamad is the correct way.

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Experiential

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Joined: 23 November 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 278

Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:39pm

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart

Time and place...Different times, different places... different point in the ministry of Jesus.

That's no excuse.

Mahdi. You only have a conspiracy theory with no proof.

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Topic: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES
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Author	Message
Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 26 September 2012 at 12:15pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by Caringheart* Greetings Friendship,While I still am not understanding the point you want to make regarding red letter writing, I was led by God to share this today...this is red letter writing... words of Jesus31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him. (Mark)11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John)Salaam,Caringheart Caringheart, the trouble is one does not what is original verse and which are added later on, I'm sorry but we cannot rely on any of what you have posted. THE BIBLE IS CORRUPTED! So Muhammad says to rely on the words of those who have gone before him and on the earlier scriptures, which are your scriptures too, yet tells you you have nowhere to go to find them? Would God leave his people in the dark this way?
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 27 September 2012 at 6:27am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* So Muhammad says to rely on the words of those who have gone before him and on the earlier scriptures, which are your scriptures too, yet tells you you have nowhere to go to find them?Would God leave his people in the dark this way?[/QUOTE] CORRECTION! Muhammed (pbuh) does not say any such thing nor does the Holy Qur'an it only confirms that the Torah was revealed to Prophet Musa (pbuh) and the Injeel was revealed to Prophet Isa (pbuh). God indeed does not leave humanity in the dark hence the need for the Holy Qur'an the Last and Final Testament from God Almighty to mankind.
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Friendship Senior Member Joined: 24 August 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 882	Posted: 27 September 2012 at 6:54am
	Assalamu alaiku. While it is indisputable that the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad lasted for about 23 years, there is proof of what that Tablet revealed to Moses contained. What was it exactly? My The Promise Study Edition is 1458 pages. Certainly pages 220-1458 were not a revelation to Moses the receiver of the Tablet. Pages 1-220 could not be also part of the Tablet. I am again calling on members of this forum to be wiser and straightforward to achieve the objective of the forum. Muhammad was not sent to discuss what we are discussing. HE CAME TO UNITE THE WORLD UNDER A LOVING AND PEACEFUL ENVIRONMENT. HE INVITED ALL TO WORSHIP ONE G-D BY EACH NATION STICKING TO HIS LAWS SENT THROUGH RESPECTIVE MESSENGERS. WE MUST CORRECT EACH OTHER FOR THE LAWS OF THE G-D OF ABRAHAM ON PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE IS ONE. If Muhammad's front is to confront the desires of people, how could he have obeyed the request of those who expelled him forcefully in sending forth their equals during the battle of Badr? If his way of life was confrontational he would never have done that. But he listened and obeyed the request of his enemies. It is not possible for the Christians to understand the Qur'an for understanding it is governed by rules and regulations that are known only to those studying it. Secondly it is not possible to see its fruits practically for such fruits are only seen when the Law is applied to the latter. We have heard an Egyptian Muslim scholar taken to court for burning the Bible. Where in the history of Muhammad and his caliphs was the Torah burnt? The Christians must change their strategy. Friendship.
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 278	Posted: 27 September 2012 at 3:59pm
	*Originally posted by Friendship* Assalamu alaikum. I am yet to get a clear satisfactory explanation from the Christians on the difference bewteen SELF-PRONOUNCING RED LETTER EDITION AND OTHERS. In the self pronouncing red letter edition. Math 10:5, "Those twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying." is self pronouncing black letter edition. Therefore it is not the statement of Jesus son of Maryam. The rest are self pronouncing red letter. Therefore that was the statement of Jesus son of Maryam. Matthew 28:18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying: Is self pronouncing black letter edition. That was not the statement of Jesus son of Maryam. Thwe res tare sel pronouncing red letter. The important question is: If Moses was given the Torah under one sitting or one meeting, the followers of Jesus son of Maryam are depicting that Jesus son of Maryam was visited by angel Gabriel in the manner he visited Muhammad Rasulullah. But this is denied by Allah in the Qur'an 25:32, "Why is the Qur'an not sent in one go?" I believe the Christians are creating stumbling block in refusing to understand that Muhammad did not come to deny the messengers before him. I will advise the folowers of Muhammad to take note of that and that whaever one reads from the Bible should make effort to know its arms from the Qur'an or hadith of the holy Apostle. Let us give them the burden of proof that they do not like peace to reign. Friendship. Assalamu alaikum Friendship. Do you remember me, I am David who was here quite a while ago. It is nice to be back discussing with you and I still remember your kind wishes when my country suffered the earthquake. Any way I hope I can help make things clear. Maybe we will never agree but I am sure there will always be respect. Friendship, the red letter writing is nothing but a publishers gimmick. Just the same as some bibles have maps and pictures and some do not. Friendship Said The important question is: If Moses was given the Torah under one sitting or one meeting, My Reply Why is it so important to you whether Moses received the Torah in one meeting or not? Im not sure why that’s so important to you? Anyway if you read the life of Moses you will see he was in constant communication with God and received the Torah over a period of time. Friendship Said The followers of Jesus are depicting that Jesus was visited by the angel Gabriel in the manner he visited Muhammad. But this is denied by Allah in the Qur'an 25:32, "Why is the Qur'an not sent in one go?" I believe the Christians are creating a stumbling block in refusing to understand that Muhammad did not come to deny the messengers before him. I will advise the followers of Muhammad to take note of that and that whatever one reads from the Bible should make effort to know its arms from the Qur'an or hadith of the holy Apostle. Let us give them the burden of proof that they do not like peace to reign. My Reply Jesus was not visited by Gabriele. Only Maryam was. The contradictions between the Bible and Quaran speak for themselves. The contradictions between the two are the stumbling block. Mohamads version of events in the Quaran contradicts the Injil so Christians do not accept it. Edited by Experiential - 27 September 2012 at 10:34pm
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 278	Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:07pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by Caringheart* Greetings Friendship,While I still am not understanding the point you want to make regarding red letter writing, I was led by God to share this today...this is red letter writing... words of Jesus31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him. (Mark)11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John)Salaam,Caringheart Caringheart, the trouble is one does not what is original verse and which are added later on, I'm sorry but we cannot rely on any of what you have posted. THE BIBLE IS CORRUPTED! Abu Loren this is all conspiracy theory. Muslims don’t know what is original or added later because your Quaran is confused about the Injil. Muslims are never able to prove the conspiracy theory. I challenge you to tell me who changed the Injil ? Where ? When ? and why ? You and your Quaran appear confused because even your Quaran confirms the New Testament is from God, so why would God allow a corrupted truth ?? Sura 19.30. He [Jesus] said, "Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet." Sura 3:3. It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you (Muhammad) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel). Sura 5:46 states that the Injil was given to Jesus by Allah. Sura 19:30 and 3:3 then clarify that the Injil is a book just as the Qur'an and the Torah are books that were sent down by Allah. Why would God allow a corrupted truth ?? Edited by Experiential - 27 September 2012 at 10:32pm
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 278	Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:17pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke* Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. VS Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Sorry. My bad. Clearly no contradiction. CLEARLY one is added much later, therefore the contradiction. CLEARLY you just pick and choose verses that suit you. Have any of you ever read the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John from beginning to the end. If you had, you would get the context and see the verses do not contradict but actually complement each other. If you are worried about contradictions your Quaran is full of them. Jesus came first for the Jew and then the non Jew.
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 278	Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:34pm
	*Originally posted by Friendship* Assalamu alaiku. While it is indisputable that the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad lasted for about 23 years, there is proof of what that Tablet revealed to Moses contained. What was it exactly? My The Promise Study Edition is 1458 pages. Certainly pages 220-1458 were not a revelation to Moses the receiver of the Tablet. Pages 1-220 could not be also part of the Tablet. I am again calling on members of this forum to be wiser and straightforward to achieve the objective of the forum. Muhammad was not sent to discuss what we are discussing. HE CAME TO UNITE THE WORLD UNDER A LOVING AND PEACEFUL ENVIRONMENT. HE INVITED ALL TO WORSHIP ONE G-D BY EACH NATION STICKING TO HIS LAWS SENT THROUGH RESPECTIVE MESSENGERS. WE MUST CORRECT EACH OTHER FOR THE LAWS OF THE G-D OF ABRAHAM ON PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE IS ONE. If Muhammad's front is to confront the desires of people, how could he have obeyed the request of those who expelled him forcefully in sending forth their equals during the battle of Badr? If his way of life was confrontational he would never have done that. But he listened and obeyed the request of his enemies. It is not possible for the Christians to understand the Qur'an for understanding it is governed by rules and regulations that are known only to those studying it. Secondly it is not possible to see its fruits practically for such fruits are only seen when the Law is applied to the latter. We have heard an Egyptian Muslim scholar taken to court for burning the Bible. Where in the history of Muhammad and his caliphs was the Torah burnt? The Christians must change their strategy. Friendship. Friendship Said While it is indisputable that the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad lasted for about 23 years, My Reply Indisputable ? The Quaran found in Sunna in Yemen in 1972 indicates the “revelation” Mohamad received was tampered with. Read the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana'a_manuscript Friendship Said I am again calling on members of this forum to be wiser and straightforward to achieve the objective of the forum. Muhammad was not sent to discuss what we are discussing. HE CAME TO UNITE THE WORLD UNDER A LOVING AND PEACEFUL ENVIRONMENT. HE INVITED ALL TO WORSHIP ONE G-D BY EACH NATION STICKING TO HIS LAWS SENT THROUGH RESPECTIVE MESSENGERS. WE MUST CORRECT EACH OTHER FOR THE LAWS OF THE G-D OF ABRAHAM ON PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE IS ONE. My Reply I agree with you Friendship. There is some truth to what you say. But I am not convinced the way of Mohamad is the correct way.
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Experiential Senior Member Joined: 23 November 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 278	Posted: 27 September 2012 at 4:39pm
	*Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke* *Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke* Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. VS Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Sorry. My bad. Clearly no contradiction. Time and place...Different times, different places... different point in the ministry of Jesus. That's no excuse. Mahdi. You only have a conspiracy theory with no proof.
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