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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2012 at 11:00am
"12  But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become children of God, even to those them that believe on His name:  13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2012 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Actually watch the show Finding Your Roots, sometime.  With all the new DNA evidence we can now see from whom we descend and many are finding that their roots trace back to having Hebrew blood.  It is quite possible that I, or you, may have.  I honestly think that I must.  I want to have the DNA testing done.



As'alaamu Alaikkum

Why 'Hebrew blood'? When Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala destroyed humanity except a handful of believers that were in the ark with Noah the resulting generations would carry the DNA of these people who survived. They were not Jews, they didn't acquire this name until much later. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells us in the Holy Qur'an that all believers are Mulsims which means that they have submitted to His Will. Then from the ark these handful of people grew to a community, then a town, then a nation and then they spread out and eventually populated the whole earth.

Another way of looking at this is that humanity can trace back it's DNA to the first man father Adam (pbuh) and his mate made from his rib mother Eve.

Thank god we don't have to search for the 'missing link'.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 18 September 2012 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren


Thank god we don't have to search for the 'missing link'.


Smile made me smile.
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Experiential
 
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 20 September 2012 at 3:56am
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Experiential

Originally posted by Abu Loren


Originally posted by Caringheart


Your latest conspiracy theory. [IMG]smileys/smiley6.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Unhappy" />

Abu Loren said -
It is not a conspiracy theory but FACT. Jesus did not come to start a new religion, "he came for the lost sheep of Israel". The 'gentiles' were not invited to a new covenent until Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) started his mission. The Holy Qur'an was revealed as a guide and Mercy to humanity.
1+1+1 = 1
Paul 'saw' Jesus (pbuh) after about twenty years after his 'crucifixion'. The funny part is that Jesus (pbuh) was not crucified but was taken up to heaven bodily. Furthermore, Paul started to argue with the true disciples of Jesus (pbuh) namely his beloved disciple Peter. So this tells me that 1+1+1 =3.


Abu Loren
Go back and read the earlier post, dated 31 August and you will see Jesus first came for the Jew and then the non Jew. Do you read the posts? Do you read the verses provided? All the ancient Jewish prophesies point to Jesus not Mohammad. There is no mercy to humanity from the Quaran – only heavy rules. Jesus came to bring rest.

Paul 'saw' Jesus (pbuh) after about twenty years after his 'crucifixion'. How do you know that? What do you base this on ? And even if you are right, so what?

Your version of events based on the Quaran is not credible. Why should I believe a book written more than 600 years after the Injil written by eye witnesses. Even the non Christian historian Josephus wrote about the crucifixion in the first century.

Paul never agued with Peter. Again you don’t have your facts right. Go back and read the Acts of the Apostles. You even thought it was paul that wrote it when it was Luke !

What does this mean ? 1+1+1 =3 ?????????

1+1+1=3. Elementary mathematics.
Quran has no mercy? If it is all about convinience and not truth, i would be a christian.
Christianity=Blame it on the scapegoat Jesus.

Yes Jesus was a scape goat. A willing one, prophesied to be The Sacrificial Lamb in the Old testament. Jesus willingly sacrificed his own life to release Gods mercy to you. Do you honestly think your good religious behavior can ever be enough to satisfy Gods Holyness. No of course not. Only God can do it. No matter how hard you try you cannot. Jesus paid the price for you.

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 20 September 2012 at 4:06am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Experiential



Abu Loren
Go back and read the earlier post, dated 31 August and you will see Jesus first came for the Jew and then the non Jew. Do you read the posts? Do you read the verses provided? All the ancient Jewish prophesies point to Jesus not Mohammad. There is no mercy to humanity from the Quaran – only heavy rules. Jesus came to bring rest.

Paul 'saw' Jesus (pbuh) after about twenty years after his 'crucifixion'. How do you know that? What do you base this on ? And even if you are right, so what?

Your version of events based on the Quaran is not credible. Why should I believe a book written more than 600 years after the Injil written by eye witnesses. Even the non Christian historian Josephus wrote about the crucifixion in the first century.

Paul never agued with Peter. Again you don’t have your facts right. Go back and read the Acts of the Apostles. You even thought it was paul that wrote it when it was Luke !

What does this mean ? 1+1+1 =3 ?????????


Jesus first came for the Jew and then the non Jew.

A Christian would die to make this point. The answer is simple and straightforward. Jesus (pbuh) came for the Jews,and Paul make it into an international religion inviting the gentiles when the pagan Romans took over the new invented religion of Christianity.

All the ancient Jewish prophesies point to Jesus not Mohammad.

Indeed Jesus (pbuh) has been prophesied in the Old Testament and nobody here is denying that as we all believe that he is the blessed Messiah. Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) has also been prophecied in the Old Testament but the texts have been suppressed by the Jews and Christians.

There is no mercy to humanity from the Quaran – only heavy rules. Jesus came to bring rest.

The final revelation from God given to Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is a guidance and mercy for all humanity. Previously, only the Children of Israel were invited to the covenant of God.

Matthew 20

1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar bin Al-Khattab:
Allah's Apostle said, "Your example and the example of Jews and Christians is like the example of a man who employed some laborers to whom he said, 'Who will work for me up to midday for one Qirat each?' The Jews carried out the work for one Qirat each; and then the Christians carried out the work up to the `Asr prayer for one Qirat each; and now you Muslims are working from the `Asr prayer up to sunset for two Qirats each. The Jews and Christians got angry and said, 'We work more and are paid less.' The employer (Allah) asked them, 'Have I usurped some of your right?' They replied in the negative. He said, 'That is My Blessing, I bestow upon whomever I wish.' "

As you can see from Matthew 20 that God chooses a people to Himself and clearly the Muslims will be the final people to enter his covenant, this is an invitation for all mankind.

Paul never agued with Peter. Again you don’t have your facts right. Go back and read the Acts of the Apostles. You even thought it was paul that wrote it when it was Luke !

I think it's you who needs to re-read the Bible. In the New Testament it's very clear the adversary of Peter was the new usurper Paul. Jesus' (pbuh) beloved disciples were sidelined and overtaken by the false gospel of Paul, only because the Romans preferred Paul and accepted his writings.

Christianity is an invented religion and it's a judo-pagan religion that has no resemblence to the Old Testament nor the teachings of Jesus (pbuh).
 
Abu Loren said

A Christian would die to make this point. The answer is simple and straightforward. Jesus (pbuh) came for the Jews …

My Reply

Jesus said -

Matthew 24:14 - "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations,and then the end will come."

Matthew 28:19 - "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of theSon and of the Holy Spirit.."

Mark 11:17 - "And as He taught them, He said, 'Is it not written: "My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations"? ...'" (Isaiah 56:7)

Mark 13:10 - "And the gospel must first be preached to all nations."

Mark 13:27 - "And He will send His angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens."

Mark 16:15 - "He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.'"

Luke 2:31, 32 - "'which you have prepared in the sight of all people, a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for gloryto your people Israel.'"

Luke 3:6 - "And all mankind will see God's salvation."

Luke 24:47 - "..and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at

Jerusalem." and on earth and under the earth.

And your own Quaran –

Sura19:21 He said, "Thus said your Lord, 'It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.'"

Sura 21.91and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.

Sura 3:3  He has revealed upon you this Scripture with the Truth, confirming that which was before it; and He revealed the Tawrât and the Injîl,

 

 

 Abu Loren said

Christianity is an invented religion (by Paul) and it's a judo-pagan religion that has no resemblance to the Old Testament nor the teachings of Jesus (pbuh). Paul make it into an international religion inviting the gentiles when the pagan Romans took over the new invented religion of Christianity.

My Reply

Jesus was a Jew. Mohammad was not.

Paul was a Jew. Mohamed was not.

Jesus and Paul lived 2000 years ago. Mohammad did not.

Paul knew the Old Testament incredibly well and quoted from it often.

Jesus friends were Jews. Paul knew all of Jesus friends (Peter, James, Judas)  and they all supported Paul. Mohammad did not know them.

The Injil was written by many authors, Paul was only one and his writings do not differ from the others.

Paul was executed by the Roman Empire, so obviously he did not support the Roman Empire.

 

 

Abu Loren said

Indeed Jesus (pbuh) has been prophesied in the Old Testament and nobody here is denying that as we all believe that he is the blessed Messiah.

My Reply

Then if you follow the prophesies then you will see he died and rose again.

Read these prophesies -

Isiah 53 -He would be killed.

Psalm 16:10 He Would rise from the dead.

Psalm 68:18 He would rise into heaven.

 

 

Abu Loren said

Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) has also been prophesied in the Old Testament but the texts have been suppressed by the Jews and Christians.

My Reply

Another conspiracy theory! Prove these prophesies. Where are they in the Bible? And don’t try Deuteronomy 18:15-22 or try to link Sura 61:6 with John 14:16 because it doesn’t fit.

The texts were suppressed ? Prove it ! When was this done? By who? Where? And why?

 

 

Abu Loren said

The final revelation from God given to Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is a guidance and mercy for all humanity. Previously, only the Children of Israel were invited to the covenant of God.

Matthew 20 …

My Reply

Matthew 24:14 - "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations,and then the end will come."

Matthew 28:19 - "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of theSon and of the Holy Spirit.."

Mark 11:17 - "And as He taught them, He said, 'Is it not written: "My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations"? ...'" (Isaiah 56:7)

Mark 13:10 - "And the gospel must first be preached to all nations."

Mark 13:27 - "And He will send His angels and gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens."

Mark 16:15 - "He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.'"

Luke 2:31, 32 - "'which you have prepared in the sight of all people, a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for gloryto your people Israel.'"

Luke 3:6 - "And all mankind will see God's salvation."

Luke 24:47 - "..and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at

Jerusalem." and on earth and under the earth.

And your own Quaran –

Sura19:21 He said, "Thus said your Lord, 'It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.'"

 

 

 Abu Loren said

Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar bin Al-Khattab:

Allah's Apostle said, "Your example and the example of Jews and Christians is like the example of a man who employed some laborers to whom he said, 'Who will work for me up to midday for one Qirat each?' The Jews carried out the work for one Qirat each; and then the Christians carried out the work up to the `Asr prayer for one Qirat each; and now you Muslims are working from the `Asr prayer up to sunset for two Qirats each. The Jews and Christians got angry and said, 'We work more and are paid less.' The employer (Allah) asked them, 'Have I usurped some of your right?' They replied in the negative. He said, 'That is My Blessing, I bestow upon whomever I wish.' "

As you can see from Matthew 20 that God chooses a people to Himself and clearly the Muslims will be the final people to enter his covenant, this is an invitation for all mankind.

My Reply

Who cares what Abdullah bin `Umar bin Al-Khattab had to say ! Not me ! All he has done is corrupt Mathew 20 to his own purposes.

 

 Abu Loren said

I think it's you who needs to re-read the Bible. In the New Testament it's very clear the adversary of Peter was the new usurper Paul. Jesus' (pbuh) beloved disciples were sidelined and overtaken by the false gospel of Paul, only because the Romans preferred Paul and accepted his writings.

My Reply

As a Christian of course I know the Bible better than you. You didn’t even know who wrote the Acts of the Apostles. You thought it was Paul when it was actually Luke !!!

Read Acts of the Apostles Chapter 15 and you will see Peter, James and Paul agreed.

Paul was executed by the Roman Empire, so obviously he did not support the Roman Empire!

 

 

 

 

 

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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 20 September 2012 at 1:00pm
This is why I hate debating with Christians, the discussion just goes round in circles.
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 11:28am
My Reply Jesus said -
Matthew 24:14 - "And this
gospel of the kingdom will be
preached in the whole world
as a testimony to all nations,and then the end will come."
Matthew 28:19 - "Therefore go
and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of
theSon and of the Holy Spirit.."
Mark 11:17 - "And as He taught
them, He said, 'Is it not
written: "My house will be
called a house of prayer for all nations"? ...'" (Isaiah 56:7) Mark 13:10 - "And the gospel
must first be preached to all nations." Mark 13:27 - "And He will send
His angels and gather His elect
from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens."
Mark 16:15 - "He said to them,
'Go into all the world and
preach the good news to all creation.'" Luke 2:31, 32 - "'which you
have prepared in the sight of all people, a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for gloryto your people Israel.'"
Luke 3:6 - "And all mankind will see God's salvation."
Luke 24:47 - "..and repentance
and forgiveness of sins will be
preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." and on earth and
under the earth.

Experiential, this is what youshould have replied with in the first place

Edited by Mahdi The Seeke - 24 September 2012 at 11:29am
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 11:56am
Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following
instructions: “Do not go
among the Gentiles or enter
any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

VS

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said,
“All authority in heaven and on
earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,
baptizing them in the name of
the Father and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey
everything I have commanded
you.


Sorry Experiential. My bad. Clearly no contradiction.

Edited by Mahdi The Seeke - 25 September 2012 at 8:48pm
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