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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Topic: CHRISTIANS:YOU ARE NOT ISRAELITES
    Posted: 09 August 2012 at 9:04am
Matt 10:5-6)
Jesus sent out these 12 after giving them instructions: "Don't take the road leading to other nations, and don't enter any Samaritan town. Instead, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

(Matthew 15:24) He (Jesus) replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 12 August 2012 at 1:15pm
Assalamu alaika Mahdi.


You are correct. The only Islam at that time was the Islam of Moses. Jesus son of Maryam was a prophet in maintaining the law of Moses and also a messenger for simplifying the Law of Moses.

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 31 August 2012 at 9:13pm

You need to read the Bible in context not just take one verse in isolation. Jesus' ministry before his death, resurrection and ascension was primarily to the Jews, though far from being restricted to them. After these events he sent out his disciples, whom he had thoroughly prepared, into all the world with his message of good news of salvation by grace (Mt 28:18-20, etc). That is why Jesus knows, when he hears that the Greeks are pressing to see Him (Jn 12:20-22), that his hour of death is imminent (12:23-24, 27). For Jesus must suffer, die and be glorified before his universal message of salvation (12:32) can be carried to the Gentile world.

 

Jesus ministers to the gentile Canaanite woman and her daughter (Mt 15:28 = Mk 7:29-30), he tells his disciples that they will witness before Gentiles (Mt 10:18).

 

Moreover, though his ministry was primarily to Jews it was not confined solely to them. Jesus did journey into the Gentile areas of Tyre, Sidon, and the Decapolis (a mostly Gentile area); spent time in the half Jew, half Gentile province of Samaria (Mk 7:24, 31; Lk 9:52; Jn 4:4-5); and he did minister to non-Jews

 

Jesus spoke positively of, healed, and preached to some Samaritans (who were half Jew and half Gentile) - Lk 9:51-56; 10:29-37; 17:11-19; Jn 4:1-42.

He sent his twelve disciples to a Samaritan village to prepare things for his visit there (Lk 9:52). He sent the Gadarene demoniac to preach in the Decapolis (Mk 5:18-20).

He healed Gentiles and taught at least a few Greeks - Mt 4:23-25; 8:5-13 = Lk 7:2-10; Mt 15:27-28 = Mk 7:28-30; Jn 12:20-22. The Gadarene demoniac, whom Jesus healed, was probably also a Gentile, as he resided in an area where pigs were raised and came from the mostly heathen area known as the Decapolis - Mt 8:28-34 = Mk 5:1-20.

 

Of the few compliments he gave ,three were to non-Jews - Mt 8:10 = Lk 7:9; Mt 15:28; Lk 17:17-19. Cf Mt 11:7-11 = Lk 7:24-28; Mt 18:4; 26:10,13; Jn 1:47.

 

He often accused the Jews of having less faith than the Gentiles, and spoke of God's special care for the Gentiles - Mt 3:9 (the words of John the Baptist); Mt 10:15; Mt 11:21-24 = Lk 10:12-15; Mt 12:41-42 = Lk 11:30-32; Mt 21:42-43; Lk 4:25-30.

 

He cleansed the temple at least partially for the sake of the Gentiles - Mk 11:17. Cf Is 56:6-7; Jer 7:11.

 

 According to Jesus' own words, his mission is universal:

a.His death is meant to accomplish the redemption of all mankind - Mt 20:28 = Mk 10:45; Jn 3:16; 4:42; 12:32; etc.

b.His gospel message was to be preached to all mankind - Mt 10:18; 24:14; 28:18-20; Mk 13:10; 14:9; 16:15; Lk 4:25-30; 24:47; Jn 17:20-21: Acts 1:8.

c.His kingdom includes people of all nations - Mt 8:11-12; 21:43; 25:31-32; Lk 13:28-30; Jn 10:16; 11:52.

9.The genealogy of Jesus includes two Gentile woman, Rahab and Ruth (Mt 1:5). Also the magi from the east played a major part at the birth of the new born king (Mt 2:1-12). Thus both his lineage and the signs accompanying his birth intimate that his future ministry would impact all nations.

10.According to Old Testament prophecy, the mission of the Christ was to be universal - Gn 12:3; Is 2:2; 9:1; 40:5; 42:1,4 = Mt 12:18,21; 49:6; 60:1-3; Mc 4:1-5; 5:4; Zc 9:9-10; etc.

 

C.Is to the Jew first then to the Gentiles

Is 49:5-6; Lk 24:47; Ac 1:8; 3:25-26; 11:15-18; 13:46-48; Ro 1:16; 2:9-11; 15:8-9.

 

 

 Besides dosn't the Quaran confirm Jesus as to all peoples ? for example -

 

 1.Jesus is a sign to all peoples - 19:21 (al-nas, cf 7:158); 21:91 (al-Aalameen, cf 21:107). Cf 2:124; 43:46-47.

2.Jesus is held up as an example for the Arabs - 43:57.

3.The Bible is for all mankind - 3:3-4, 187; 6:89-91.



Edited by Experiential - 31 August 2012 at 9:21pm
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2012 at 2:53pm
Assalamu Alaaika Experiential


It is not every one claiming to be a follower of Muhammad understood that the holy Qur'an is a compendium of the only Fundamental Message from Allah to human beings. To this I prefer to mention the Torah rather than the Bible for the Bible ideally does not contradict the Torah. It is however make certain Laws simpler or in tune with the necessities of that time.
I read the Torah and its commentary and also the Bible with its commentary by Reverend Mathew Henry. If I translate the contents into Arabic there is that Fundamental Message in the exegesis of the Muslim scholars. It is not disallowed for one to refer to historical facts in previous Messages in explaining what is in the holy Qur'an. There are verses in the Qur'an describing the Torah as a message to mankind. But because of misunderstanding, most followers of Muhammad do not see to that reality.
The difference is only in the mode of worship clearly mentioned in the holy Qur'an. Do you know that the average time spent in observing the five obligatory prayers is not above one hour? This is the time Jesus spent in his prayer!
It is impossible to get the followers of Muhammad to the Straight Path without the People of the previous Message challenging them. There is no point of talking not putting what one believes in practice. This is the sickness of the followers of Muhammad Rasulullah.

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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2012 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by Friendship

It is not disallowed for one to refer to historical facts in previous Messages in explaining what is in the holy Qur'an.
 
The exact opposite would be true, for that which is contained in previous scriptures for the ummah of Prophet Mohammad is not believed or disbelieved unless confirmed by the Quran.  ("We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136))  Quran is explained by Quran, Hadith, companions of the Prophet, and companions of companions.  Therefore it is not disallowed for Muslims to refer to Quran in explaining or clarifying historical events in previous scriptures. 
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Quote Friendship Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2012 at 10:22pm
Assalamu alaika Abuayisa.


There are guidelines set by Allah in tackling such issues. I am sure you know them. Even those issues are to be explained by them not by the followers of Muhammad Rasulullah. For example, the Levi clan in Medina refused to believe in Muhammad not because he is not a prophet, but because he is not from them. You have not right of accusing the other tribes.
There are four such issues:
1. Their rejection of the angels Gabriel  Harut and Marut.
2. Ezra as the son of Allah.
3. Allah taking the angels and females as partners.
4. The question of Jesus son of Maryam.
For example the Samaritans have their own version of the Torah. The Bible of Barnabas is also different from others. There is consensus on the teaching of Jesus by his believers. Then we have the Sabians and Zoroastrians etc.
A careful analysis of the behaviour of the followers of Muhammad reveals an assimilation of such misunderstandings and disputes in his Sunna. Look at the Shiites for example! Lokk at those who call themselves ahl-al-sunna but  not having s caliph and praying according to the manner they like. Just imagine the behavior during the fasting season. You cannot call such people disbelievers. They believe that hey are not disbelievers. So what is the rational of calling those with previous scriptures disbelievers? It is only Allah with that right. We only narrate to them how Allah described them.

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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2012 at 1:31am
Thank you Friendship.
I think I have demonstrated to Mahdi that Jesus is for all people - not just the Jews.
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2012 at 2:11am
Originally posted by Experiential

<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">You need to read the Bible in context not just take one verse in isolation. Jesus' ministry before his death, resurrection and ascension was primarily to the Jews, though far from being restricted to them. After these events he sent out his disciples, whom he had thoroughly prepared, into all the world with his message of good news of salvation by grace (Mt 28:18-20, etc). That is why Jesus knows, when he hears that the Greeks are pressing to see Him (Jn 12:20-22), that his hour of death is imminent (12:23-24, 27). For Jesus must suffer, die and be glorified before his universal message of salvation (12:32) can be carried to the Gentile world.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Jesus ministers to the gentile Canaanite woman and her daughter (Mt 15:28 = Mk 7:29-30), he tells his disciples that they will witness before Gentiles (Mt 10:18). <O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Moreover, though his ministry was primarily to Jews it was not confined solely to them. Jesus did journey into the Gentile areas of <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><ST1:CITY w:st="on">Tyre</ST1:CITY>, <ST1:CITY w:st="on">Sidon</ST1:CITY>, and the Decapolis (a mostly Gentile area); spent time in the half Jew, half Gentile <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">province</ST1:PLACE> of <ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">Samaria</ST1:PLACENAME></ST1:PLACE> (Mk 7:24, 31; Lk 9:52; Jn 4:4-5); and he did minister to non-Jews <O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Jesus spoke positively of, healed, and preached to some Samaritans (who were half Jew and half Gentile) - Lk 9:51-56; 10:29-37; 17:11-19; Jn 4:1-42.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">He sent his twelve disciples to a Samaritan village to prepare things for his visit there (Lk 9:52). He sent the Gadarene demoniac to preach in the <ST1:PLACE w:st="on">Decapolis</ST1:PLACE> (Mk 5:18-20).<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">He healed Gentiles and taught at least a few Greeks - Mt 4:23-25; 8:5-13 = Lk 7:2-10; Mt 15:27-28 = Mk 7:28-30; Jn 12:20-22. The Gadarene demoniac, whom Jesus healed, was probably also a Gentile, as he resided in an area where pigs were raised and came from the mostly heathen area known as the <ST1:PLACE w:st="on">Decapolis</ST1:PLACE> - Mt 8:28-34 = Mk 5:1-20.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Of the few compliments he gave ,three were to non-Jews - Mt 8:10 = Lk 7:9; Mt 15:28; Lk 17:17-19. Cf Mt 11:7-11 = Lk 7:24-28; Mt 18:4; 26:10,13; Jn 1:47.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">He often accused the Jews of having less faith than the Gentiles, and spoke of God's special care for the Gentiles - Mt 3:9 (the words of John the Baptist); Mt 10:15; Mt 11:21-24 = Lk 10:12-15; Mt 12:41-42 = Lk 11:30-32; Mt 21:42-43; Lk 4:25-30.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">He cleansed the temple at least partially for the sake of the Gentiles - Mk 11:17. Cf Is 56:6-7; Jer 7:11.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">According to Jesus' own words, his mission is universal:<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">a.His death is meant to accomplish the redemption of all mankind - Mt 20:28 = Mk 10:45; Jn 3:16; 4:42; 12:32; etc.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">b.His gospel message was to be preached to all mankind - Mt 10:18; 24:14; 28:18-20; Mk 13:10; 14:9; 16:15; Lk 4:25-30; 24:47; Jn 17:20-21: Acts 1:8.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">c.His kingdom includes people of all nations - Mt 8:11-12; 21:43; 25:31-32; Lk 13:28-30; Jn 10:16; 11:52.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">9.The genealogy of Jesus includes two Gentile woman, Rahab and Ruth (Mt 1:5). Also the magi from the east played a major part at the birth of the new born king (Mt 2:1-12). Thus both his lineage and the signs accompanying his birth intimate that his future ministry would impact all nations.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">10.According to Old Testament prophecy, the mission of the Christ was to be universal - Gn 12:3; Is 2:2; 9:1; 40:5; 42:1,4 = Mt 12:18,21; 49:6; 60:1-3; Mc 4:1-5; 5:4; Zc 9:9-10; etc.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">C.Is to the Jew first then to the Gentiles<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Is 49:5-6; Lk 24:47; Ac 1:8; 3:25-26; 11:15-18; 13:46-48; Ro 1:16; 2:9-11; 15:8-9.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman">



</O:P>
</SPAN>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Besides dosn't the Quaran confirm Jesus as to all peoples ? for example -<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><O:P><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">1.Jesus is a sign to all peoples - 19:21 (al-nas, cf 7:158); 21:91 (al-Aalameen, cf 21:107). Cf 2:124; 43:46-47.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">2.Jesus is held up as an example for the Arabs - 43:57.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">3.The Bible is for all mankind - 3:3-4, 187; 6:89-91.<O:P></O:P></SPAN>

UNLESS YOU WERE BORN ONE, YOU will never be a part of the house of Israel, no matter how many verses you quote.


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