IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: the Hebrews(today known as the Jews)

Message

Judaism 
maintains that the righteous of all nations have 
a place in the world to come. This has been the 
majority rule since the days of the Talmud. 

Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same 
G-d that we do and those who follow the tenets of 
their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d. 

Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than 
other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d's chosen people, we do not 
believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According 
to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the 
Torah to all the 
nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only 
ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the 
Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! 
(In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as "at the foot of the mountain" 
literally mean "underneath the mountain"!) Another traditional story suggests 
that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they 
were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d's 
might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a 
people who think they are better than other nations. 

Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of 
G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the 
blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high 
price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are 
only obligated to obey the seven commandments given 
to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 
mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would 
not be a sin for non-Jews. 

The Seven Laws of Noah

According to traditional Judaism, G-d gave Noah and 
his family seven commandments to observe when he saved them from the flood. 
These commandments, referred to as the Noahic or Noahide commandments, are 
inferred from Genesis Ch. 9, and are as follows: 1) to establish courts of 
justice; 2) not to commit blasphemy; 3) not to commit idolatry; 4) not to 
commit incest and adultery; 5) not to commit bloodshed; 6) not to commit 
robbery; and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal. These commandments 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and most of them are recognized by most 
of the world as sound moral principles. Any non-Jew who follows these laws has 
a place in the world to come. 

The Noahic commandments are binding on all people, because all people are 
descended from Noah and his family. The 613 mitzvot 
of the Torah, on the other hand, are only binding 
on the descendants of those who accepted the commandments at Sinai and upon 
those who take on the yoke of the commandments voluntarily (by 
conversion). In addition, the Noahic 
commandments are applied more leniently to non-Jews than the corresponding 
commandments are to Jews, because non-Jews do not have the benefit of 
Oral Torah to guide them in interpreting the laws. 
For example, worshipping G-d in the form of a man would constitute idolatry for 
a Jew; however, according to some sources, the Christian worship of Jesus does 
not constitute idolatry for non-Jews. 
___________________________________________
"G-d offered the 
Torah to all the 
nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only 
ones who accepted it."

Sounds like a similar thing that I have heard from Muhammad's teaching.
___________________________________________

Sorry, it would have taken too long to disable the links.  They are not included for a purpose.  My only wish is to increase understanding between the religions.

[Edit:  I also see that I forgot to include the citation of the source of this information, and I don't know that I would be able to find now where I was reading.  I did not write this but only shared for the purposes of edification.]

Edited by Caringheart - 12 August 2012 at 2:48pm

Author	Message
Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Topic: the Hebrews(today known as the Jews) Posted: 07 August 2012 at 12:54pm
	Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. This has been the majority rule since the days of the Talmud. Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that we do and those who follow the tenets of their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d. Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d's chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as "at the foot of the mountain" literally mean "underneath the mountain"!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations. Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are only obligated to obey the seven commandments given to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would not be a sin for non-Jews. The Seven Laws of Noah According to traditional Judaism, G-d gave Noah and his family seven commandments to observe when he saved them from the flood. These commandments, referred to as the Noahic or Noahide commandments, are inferred from Genesis Ch. 9, and are as follows: 1) to establish courts of justice; 2) not to commit blasphemy; 3) not to commit idolatry; 4) not to commit incest and adultery; 5) not to commit bloodshed; 6) not to commit robbery; and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal. These commandments are fairly simple and straightforward, and most of them are recognized by most of the world as sound moral principles. Any non-Jew who follows these laws has a place in the world to come. The Noahic commandments are binding on all people, because all people are descended from Noah and his family. The 613 mitzvot of the Torah, on the other hand, are only binding on the descendants of those who accepted the commandments at Sinai and upon those who take on the yoke of the commandments voluntarily (by conversion). In addition, the Noahic commandments are applied more leniently to non-Jews than the corresponding commandments are to Jews, because non-Jews do not have the benefit of Oral Torah to guide them in interpreting the laws. For example, worshipping G-d in the form of a man would constitute idolatry for a Jew; however, according to some sources, the Christian worship of Jesus does not constitute idolatry for non-Jews. ___________________________________________ "G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it." Sounds like a similar thing that I have heard from Muhammad's teaching. ___________________________________________ Sorry, it would have taken too long to disable the links. They are not included for a purpose. My only wish is to increase understanding between the religions. [Edit: I also see that I forgot to include the citation of the source of this information, and I don't know that I would be able to find now where I was reading. I did not write this but only shared for the purposes of edification.] Edited by Caringheart - 12 August 2012 at 2:48pm
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Friendship Senior Member Joined: 24 August 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 874	Posted: 12 August 2012 at 12:41pm
	Assalamu alaika Caringheart. The life history of Muhammad Rasulullah was influenced by the behavior of the Levi clan of the children of Israel and not by any of the remaining tribes. It is significant for they were the keepers of the Law. In Madina, the followers of Muhammad did not commit any crime that brought about his Shari'a. Muhammad did not come to do away with the Law of Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus the son of Maryam. The so called Christians did not play any significant role in the Shari'a of Muhammad for they were a minority without experience unlike the Jews in Medina. The common theme is ONLY ONE G-d and L-rd. According to one of your famous Rabbi Yehuda haNasi (135=215 died at the age of 70?) the Torah concludes that: 1. Man’s deeds are observed. 2. His words are heard. 3. He cannot escape the consequences of his behavior because everything he does or says is indelibly recorded. Unfortunately, this basic fundamental teaching is abhorred by the followers of Muhammad. They thus do not believe in Moses and yet believed that G-d is with them. How can you (JEWS) be silent on this and friend those who do not believe in your prophet, but to hate and reject those followers of Muhammad who want to shake hands and hug you to establishing the caliphate? I hope you are seeing and realizing the folly of the Jews in not listening to Muhammad. We have listened to Moses but you are afraid to join hands. Those 613 Mitzvot are indeed the Shari'a of Muhammad. In fact if one goes by the positive command the 365 negative commands appear from the society. Caringheart, understand that your ancestors are in paradise for they obeyed Moses. I have just read in an Arabic commentator praising the Jews and challenging the misinterpretation of some Muslim scholars that it is only the 4th generation of the children of Jacob who sinned. When the Torah was discovered by Helikiah and read they all turned to obeying the G-d of Abraham. The followers of Muhammad did not experience what your ancestors experienced - the disappearance - of the Qur'an. But why are you allowing them to mislead the world? Friendship Edited by Friendship - 12 August 2012 at 12:43pm
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 13 August 2012 at 10:23am
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Judaism maintains that the righteous of all nations have a place in the world to come. This has been the majority rule since the days of the Talmud. Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that we do and those who follow the tenets of their religions can be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d. Contrary to popular belief, Judaism does not maintain that Jews are better than other people. Although we refer to ourselves as G-d's chosen people, we do not believe that G-d chose the Jews because of any inherent superiority. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2b), G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as "at the foot of the mountain" literally mean "underneath the mountain"!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations. Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are only obligated to obey the seven commandments given to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would not be a sin for non-Jews. The Seven Laws of Noah According to traditional Judaism, G-d gave Noah and his family seven commandments to observe when he saved them from the flood. These commandments, referred to as the Noahic or Noahide commandments, are inferred from Genesis Ch. 9, and are as follows: 1) to establish courts of justice; 2) not to commit blasphemy; 3) not to commit idolatry; 4) not to commit incest and adultery; 5) not to commit bloodshed; 6) not to commit robbery; and 7) not to eat flesh cut from a living animal. These commandments are fairly simple and straightforward, and most of them are recognized by most of the world as sound moral principles. Any non-Jew who follows these laws has a place in the world to come. The Noahic commandments are binding on all people, because all people are descended from Noah and his family. The 613 mitzvot of the Torah, on the other hand, are only binding on the descendants of those who accepted the commandments at Sinai and upon those who take on the yoke of the commandments voluntarily (by conversion). In addition, the Noahic commandments are applied more leniently to non-Jews than the corresponding commandments are to Jews, because non-Jews do not have the benefit of Oral Torah to guide them in interpreting the laws. For example, worshipping G-d in the form of a man would constitute idolatry for a Jew; however, according to some sources, the Christian worship of Jesus does not constitute idolatry for non-Jews. ___________________________________________ "G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it." Sounds like a similar thing that I have heard from Muhammad's teaching. ___________________________________________ Sorry, it would have taken too long to disable the links. They are not included for a purpose. My only wish is to increase understanding between the religions. [Edit: I also see that I forgot to include the citation of the source of this information, and I don't know that I would be able to find now where I was reading. I did not write this but only shared for the purposes of edification.] The Jews belong to an exclusive club, they say that they are the 'chosen people of God' and everybody else are referred to as gentiles. This is a very poor thread from someone who claims to be educated. Sahih International Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, "Are you more knowing or is Allah ?" And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah ? And Allah is not unaware of what you do. 2:140 Sahih International Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists. 3:67 Sahih International But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination. 5:18 Sahih International Say, "O you who are Jews, if you claim that you are allies of Allah , excluding the [other] people, then wish for death, if you should be truthful." 62:6
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 14 August 2012 at 12:45pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* Abu Loren Did you do any research before you spoke? Did you speak with any Jewish person to see what they say? Here is the citation for the post: http://www.jewfaq.org/gentiles.htm Do your research, check other sources against it. I do my research. "The Jews belong to an exclusive club, they say that they are the 'chosen people of God' and everybody else are referred to as gentiles." How is this any different than what Muhammad does with his 'word from 'allah'? Does he not set the Muslims apart from all others? At least the Jews do not say all others must be 'fought with the sword until they no longer exist'. At least the Jews accept others as they are as evidenced by the above citation. Regarding the surah's which you shared; "the religion now known as Judaism was founded by our ancestor, Abraham, almost 4000 years ago. Abraham (Abram) The first Jew, the founder of Judaism, the physical and spiritual ancestor of the Jewish people. One of the three Patriarchs of Judaism. " "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Why does he punish the Muslims for their sins? "Say, "O you who are Jews, if you claim that you are allies of Allah , excluding the [other] people, then wish for death, if you should be truthful." 62:6 Good point - and it is not the Jews who exclude others, as evidenced by the citation I shared. Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 14 August 2012 at 6:05pm
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 14 August 2012 at 1:28pm
	Further thoughts; Is it any wonder that Muhammad denies Israel? Jacob(later called Israel) who was descended from Isaac... a sibling rivalry between Isaac and Ishmael that was never resolved. Doesn't the Bible warn us that the sins of the fathers will be visited upon the sons for generations to come? In rejecting Ishmael Abraham has brought about all of what now exists, dysfunction visited upon one generation after another... Esau favored by his father, Jacob favored by his mother, Joseph favored over his brothers... Jacob supposedly reconciled with his brother Esau, but did they really? yet, apparently Abraham acted as he did, at the command of God, so this is what God always intended? Surely God knew what would happen in the future because of this action... so is there meant to be a lesson in all this for humans to learn... to learn to rise above circumstances to something greater? to a higher purpose? to be content with what each has been given? God was clear that both sons(Isaac and Ishmael) would be blessed in their own ways. Yet, even with their blessings, one has been turned to fight the other. Who has done this turning? One could say it began when the "Christians", which really meant Constantine under the banner of religion, went out to spread Christianity to the world and not in the way Jesus intended. Jesus said to share the Word. To weild the Word as a weapon against evil. Never did He say to take the sword and weild it in His name. So is this where the enmity began between the Muslims(originally the Arabs) and the world, as Christianity spread. Or did it begin when the Jews went into Canaan and took it by the sword? So truly each has played His part in God's design, if it is indeed His design. Is it not the interference too of satan? (think of Job) Unruly siblings squabbling for first place in their Father's eyes, instead of coming to see that we all belong to Him, if we just seek to follow Him... if we can rise above our petty humanness... if we can resist the devil. Who perpetuates the continuation of the turning?
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Ron Webb Male Humanism Senior Member Joined: 30 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1403	Posted: 14 August 2012 at 4:45pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Judaism generally recognizes that Christians and Moslems worship the same G-d that we do... Sorry, this is off-topic but I've always wanted to ask someone what's up with the "G-d" spelling. (If it becomes a major digression we can start a new discussion.) Surely you know that the word "God" is not the name of your god. It refers to a category of hypothetical supernatural beings, only one of which is your god; and it is capitalized merely out of respect, in the same way that we capitalize "Him" when referring to ... well, Him. Sorry, it would have taken too long to disable the links. I found the links quite helpful and interesting, actually; but just as a matter of information, it's quite easy to remove all the links. Just paste the text into a text editor (e.g., Notepad), and then copy it from there into your reply. In fact, IMHO it's a really good idea to do all your typing and editing in Notepad, and then paste the final result into the discussion. You can either add any formatting as a final step, or enter it with BBCode, a.k.a "forum codes", as they are called on this forum. (See http://www.islamicity.com/forum/help.asp#FAQ16) I can't tell you how many times I've seen members lamenting that they had prepared a lengthy and brilliant message, only to have it get lost somewhere on the InterWeb when they tried to post it. Sorry, I guess that's another digression. Never mind.
	Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Friendship Senior Member Joined: 24 August 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 874	Posted: 14 August 2012 at 10:20pm
	Assalamu alaikum. Why is it that the Jews are castigated without giving evidence? The holy Qur'an never described the Jews in the manner we are describing them today. Let us know from their sages those who disobeyed Allah and were punished by Him and those who never disobeyed Him. The Levi apparently never disobeyed G-d after they slaughtered their brothers. What Allah revealed in the holy Qur'an about the Jews is to serve as a warning and a hindrance to further generation. We have to respect their boldness in challenging Allah. I see no benefit in accusing them on what they have been forgiven. The Qur'an distinguishes a Jew and 'children of Israel. See the argument and proof from: sbpra.com/allamadrsanisalihmustapha Lastly, Muhammad never fought the Jews. The value of the holy Qur'an is this: Whoever wants to be guided, prosper and live in peace will have the way to achieve that. Let us forget about the distortions created by those who if alive today will certainly correct their mistakes. Friendship.
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 15 August 2012 at 4:38pm
	*Originally posted by Friendship* Assalamu alaikum. The Qur'an distinguishes a Jew and 'children of Israel. See the argument and proof from: sbpra.com/allamadrsanisalihmustapha Friendship. Greetings Friendship, Have you read the book? Can you share with me surah's where the Qur'an distinguishes so that I may read them? ... and/or tell me what distinction is made? Thanks, Caringheart
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