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Interfaith Dialogue
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2012 at 1:57am
Originally posted by Caringheart


@Mahdi,Did you see my reply?Jesus was with the Apostles for 40 days after His death and resurrection. They did see Him, and saw what His kingdom really meant. That is where the whole Word of Christ and the Christian message came from. Before they saw Him resurrected they did not understand that His kingdom was not of this earth. After the death and resurrection, and seeing Him again, they understood. They also experienced what Jesus had promised, and that was the coming of the comforter, the Holy Spirit which entered into them at Pentacost, and then they were able to go and do the miracles of Jesus.They saw Jesus ascend to His kingdom.


1.When did Jesus come with angels in the glory of his Father to judge? 'Coming in his kingdom' refers to coming and Judging which he promised to do in the lifetime of some who were listening.
2. If his Kingdom is not of this earth, why will he/why does he have to come back?
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2012 at 3:33am
Originally posted by Experiential

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Experiential

Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Matthew 16:27-28 English Standard Version (ESV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Im not sure what your problem with Mathew 16.27 and 28 is?
Verse 27 is referring to his return as Jesus the Mesiah to judge the world at the last days and Verse 28 is him referring to some of them not dying until they see his kingdom expanding leading up to and after his resurection ?
Where is the word 'expanding' in the verses? It says some of them will not die until they Jesus coming in his kingdom aka second coming i.e with angels to pass judgement. They are all dead yet still no sign of Jesus.



<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Jesus often said his Kingdom is expanding, for example in Luke 13:18 – Then Jesus asked, "What is the <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">kingdom</ST1:PLACE> of <ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">God</ST1:PLACENAME></ST1:PLACE> like? What shall I compare it to?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air perched in its branches."<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Times New Roman">And in Luke 13:20 Again he asked, "What shall I compare the <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">kingdom</ST1:PLACE> of <ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">God</ST1:PLACENAME></ST1:PLACE> to?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount [fn] of flour until it worked all through the dough."<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman">Mathew 16 Verse 27 is talking about the second coming. But verse 28 is talking about his expanding, unfolding and coming power while they are still alive. If you<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>read on you will read about his expanding and unfolding power in his transfiguration which is evidence of this and if you keep reading on to the end of the gospel it demonstrates his unfolding power all the way to the resurrection which many of them were witnesses to.


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </O:P>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Also if you cross reference to Mark 9.1 the break between him talking about his second coming and then later talking about his resurrection is more clearly defined.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>



The verse does not say the apostles will see ' his
expanding, unfolding and
coming power while they are
still alive.' or 'his unfolding power all the way to
the resurrection' . Jesus did not say 'you will see my expanding unfolding power'
He said ' Truly, I say to you,
there are some standing here
who will not taste death until
they see the Son of Man (Jesus himself, not his expanding unfolding power
) coming in his kingdom.” Coming in his kingdom which he had described in the previous sentence as 'the Son of Man is going to
come with his angels in the
glory of his Father, and then he
will repay each person according to what he has
done'.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 23 August 2012 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart


@Mahdi,Did you see my reply?Jesus was with the Apostles for 40 days after His death and resurrection. They did see Him, and saw what His kingdom really meant. That is where the whole Word of Christ and the Christian message came from. Before they saw Him resurrected they did not understand that His kingdom was not of this earth. After the death and resurrection, and seeing Him again, they understood. They also experienced what Jesus had promised, and that was the coming of the comforter, the Holy Spirit which entered into them at Pentacost, and then they were able to go and do the miracles of Jesus.They saw Jesus ascend to His kingdom.


1.When did Jesus come with angels in the glory of his Father to judge? 'Coming in his kingdom' refers to coming and Judging which he promised to do in the lifetime of some who were listening.
2. If his Kingdom is not of this earth, why will he/why does he have to come back?
 
Jesus will come in glory to judge at the second coming.
"'Coming in his kingdom' refers to coming and Judging"
Who says it does.  All Jesus said was that you will see me coming[into] my kingdom... which they did when they saw Him ascend to heaven.
 
He has to come back to oust the devil and make it His own.
The seeds have been sown(with Adam and Eve) and have needed their time to come to fruition, then will be the reaping.
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 24 August 2012 at 4:37am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

Originally posted by Caringheart


@Mahdi,Did you see my reply?Jesus was with the Apostles for 40 days after His death and resurrection. They did see Him, and saw what His kingdom really meant. That is where the whole Word of Christ and the Christian message came from. Before they saw Him resurrected they did not understand that His kingdom was not of this earth. After the death and resurrection, and seeing Him again, they understood. They also experienced what Jesus had promised, and that was the coming of the comforter, the Holy Spirit which entered into them at Pentacost, and then they were able to go and do the miracles of Jesus.They saw Jesus ascend to His kingdom.


1.When did Jesus come with angels in the glory of his Father to judge? 'Coming in his kingdom' refers to coming and Judging which he promised to do in the lifetime of some who were listening.
2. If his Kingdom is not of this earth, why will he/why does he have to come back?

 
Jesus will come in glory to judge at the second coming.
<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr">
"'Coming in his kingdom' refers to coming and Judging"
Who says it does.  All Jesus said was that you will see me coming[into] my kingdom... which they did when they saw Him ascend to heaven.
 
He has to come back to oust the devil and make it His own.
The seeds have been sown(with Adam and Eve) and have needed their time to come to fruition, then will be the reaping.


1.He said ' Truly, I say to you,
there are some standing here
who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Coming in his kingdom which
he had described in the previous sentence as 'the Son
of Man is going to
come with his angels in the
glory of his Father, and then he
will repay each person
according to what he has done'.

Matthew 16:27-28 English
Standard Version (ESV) 27 For
the Son of Man is going to
come with his angels in the
glory of his Father, and then he
will repay each person according to what he has
done. 28 Truly, I say to you,
there are some standing here
who will not taste death until
they see the Son of Man
coming in his kingdom.”

The verses are clear enough.

2. There is a difference between coming and going. Going to heaven involves moving away from earth, coming is the complete opposite. Both statements use coming.

3. "He has to come back to oust the devil and make it His own.
The seeds have been sown(with Adam and Eve) and have needed their time to come to fruition, then will be the reaping."Colourful imagination. Please always quote direct scriptual evidence for your position otherwise i may conclude that your position is something you made up in your mind.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 25 August 2012 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke

 

3. "He has to come back to oust the devil and make it His own.
The seeds have been sown(with Adam and Eve) and have needed their time to come to fruition, then will be the reaping."Colourful imagination. Please always quote direct scriptual evidence for your position otherwise i may conclude that your position is something you made up in your mind.
 
I have no problem with the scriptures as they are written.  Jesus came into His kingdom when He rose to heaven, and the apostles finally saw what He had been trying to tell them.  He will come again(to earth) with His angels to judge the living and the dead.  I have no conflict with these two concepts.  I understand though that you do.
 
As far as #3, I would have to quote you the entire Bible.  The scriptures are written all through the Bible to support what I wrote, but you have to know and take all the scriptures as a whole.  It is necessary to understand both old testament and new testament, but it was mainly something Jesus spoke of all the time.  Sowing and reaping... preparing the soil... those who would receive th seed and those who wouldn't... and when the time was right He would return for those who belong to Him.


Edited by Caringheart - 25 August 2012 at 9:16pm
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Quote Experiential Replybullet Posted: 26 August 2012 at 3:13am
MAHDI THE SEER SAID –

The verse does not say the apostles will see ' his expanding, unfolding and coming power while they are still alive.' or 'his unfolding power all the way to the resurrection' . Jesus did not say 'you will see my expanding unfolding power' He said ' Truly, I say to you,
there are some standing here
who will not taste death until
they see the Son of Man (Jesus himself, not his expanding unfolding power ) coming in his kingdom.” Coming in his kingdom which he had described in the previous sentence as 'the Son of Man is going to
come with his angels in the
glory of his Father, and then he
will repay each person according to what he has
done'.

MY REPLY –
If you cross reference to Mark 9.1 the break between him talking about his second coming and then later talking about his resurrection is more clearly defined.

Also you cannot read one verse in isolation and out of context with the rest of the bible. So in the light of that -

Jesus often said his Kingdom is expanding, unfolding or developing in power, for example in Luke 13:18 to 13:21 –

Then Jesus asked, "What is the kingdom of God like? What shall I compare it to? It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air perched in its branches."

Again he asked, "What shall I compare the kingdom of God to? “It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount [fn] of flour until it worked all through the dough."

Mathew 16 Verse 27 is talking about the second coming. But verse 28 is talking about his unfolding and coming power while they are still alive.

If you read from Mathew 16 onwards into chapter 17 you will see his unfolding power in his transfiguration which is evidence and if you keep reading on to the end of the gospel it demonstrates his unfolding power all the way to the resurrection which many of them were witnesses to.
Mahdi the Seek said –
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Mahdi The Seeke
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Quote Mahdi The Seeke Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2012 at 6:53am
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