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Interfaith Dialogue
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Topic: comparative studies
    Posted: 29 July 2012 at 9:02pm
an invite to discussion/dialogue.
Dialogue
1.  conversation between two or more persons.
3.  an exchange of ideas or opinions on a particular issue, especially a political or religious issue, with a view to reaching an amicable agreement or settlement.
4. to carry on a dialogue; converse.
5. to discuss areas of disagreement frankly in order to resolve them.
Discussion
1. an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic
2. an exchange of views on some topic


"Whatever you do for the least of my brothers..." (Matthew 25:31-46)(Christian message)

Whoever fulfilled the needs of his brother, Allah will fulfill his needs; whoever brought his (Muslim) brother out of a discomfort, Allah will bring him out of the discomforts of the Day of Resurrection, and whoever screened a Muslim, Allah will screen him on the Day of Resurrection." - Sahih Bukhari Volume 003, Book 043, Hadith Number 622. (message of Muhammad)

We have different definitions of who a brother is...
Christianity embraces all mankind.

Narated By 'Abdullah bin 'Amr : The Prophet said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands. - Sahih Bukhari Volume 001, Book 002, Hadith Number 009.

Problem:  Here again, Muslims are instructed only to treat other Muslims well.  (prejudice)

and here again;
Narated By Anas : The Prophet said, "None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother what he likes for himself." - Sahih Bukhari Volume 001, Book 002, Hadith Number 012.

Which is the honorable teaching... the one that is free of man and man's way of thinking?
Wouldn't it seem more Godly to say that the Muslim is the one who avoids harming any other with his tongue or his hands?
This is what the Christian teaching says... love one another...
the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

treat others as you yourself would want to be treated... no qualifications to say love one another as long as they as Christian, or treat others well only if they share your belief.  Jesus treated everyone well.  Are you familiar with the story of the good samaritan?  Are you familiar with Jesus walking with the lepers, eating with sinners?  Are you familiar with Jesus who said; I came to save the lost.
“It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” - the words of Jesus (Mark 2, Luke 5)

Which is most holy?

Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”  (Matthew 9, and also Hosea 6:6)


Now I know what I see in the Muslim way of life... but what is in the Muslim thinking... in the teaching?

Thanking those willing to participate in discussion.
Heart

surah 58:22 is just an interpretation of what Jesus said in Matthew... I bring not peace but a sword... enemies of ones own household... those who believe and those who do not....

except that it reverses the message of Jesus. Whereas Jesus was saying that you will be hated by those who do not believe in me, and they will be members even of your own household...

Muhammad says, you will not find those believing in me loving those who do not. These are two very different messages, for whatever the reasons. Perhaps Muhammad misunderstood the scriptures or perhaps he just translated them poorly to his own people.

Jesus was the essence of Love and wanted us to love the lost. The message of Jesus is that it is through love that the lost may be brought to God.

surah 5:82

Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud

What Muhammad was seeing in the Christians was their Love, the Love that comes from Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Christians willing to reach out in Love and acceptance to those who do not believe, rather than condemn them, as Jesus did not condemn but rather invited to repentance. This is why Muhammad felt that the Christians were accepting of him where the Jews and idol worshipers were not. The difference is Christ Jesus. What he was seeing was the Love of Christians that comes through Christ.



Edited by Caringheart - 08 January 2013 at 9:28pm
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2012 at 10:19am
Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is the final messenger of God send to mankind and the Holy Qur'an is the final revelation. All that has been sent before this are null and void and defunct. All those who do not believe in this new revelation are outside of His mercy. For salvation you must believe in Muhammed (pbuh) and his message.
 
Sahih International
Many of the People of the Scripture wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves [even] after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until Allah delivers His command. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. 2:109
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2012 at 12:58pm
Caringheart,
something is going on. I have replied to your post before here and other threads but somehow many of those posts have disappeared or erased, by whom? only Allah knows.
I am so excited about this thread, comparative studies on religion is my favorite. We are going to have a lot of learning in this one, God willing.

Anyway I will try to answer your post agian. First I must say, based on your writing, it appears either you are mixing up things or you are mixed up dear. And I will try to show you where.
The quote you are using actually use word "brother" as well: So you cannot use that to say that it also means those who did not believe Jesus. Those who did not believe in him being the Messiah, whom Jesus according to the Bible condemned and called names in various verses.

So through select verses you were trying to show that
Christianity somehow delivers more than Islam!
And you do that under the label of "comparative studies".
I smell something fishy or simply you are "putting too much cream to your tacos" (just a saying here in Hispanic culture)              

First of all, being good toward all is a universal teaching, a Hindu will not step on an ant for example. All religions teach to be good toward others, including Islam. Simply because all religions have one origin, as mankind emerged from one man, Adam, who was guided to worship one God. It is children who strayed from that one path. God's Love and Mercy showed in form of His guidance through various prophets to correct our path.

The Quran is the primary source for a believer's guidance. And the Quran says on many places to be good not just to your fellow Muslims but toward all, in fact toward all of God's creation. To say otherwise is simply naive and ignorant of Islamic teachings.

2:177 (Picktall) It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing.


Prophets were sent by God to be living examples of how a true believer should be. Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was a great example of how a true believer should be, and so was Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) who was loved and respected by people of the book, who used to ask him to be a judge in matters that needed his wisdom and honesty toward a just decision. He was kind toward those who personally hated him and who tried to hurt him. In turn he looked for them and their well being and instead of take a revenge showed kindness to them, a true beauty of Islam.

So, on that issue you cannot compare Islam to any as Islam set examples that others still have to follow. Christians of different colors may still not sit in the same church to offer worship to God here in US and in many other countries, but God through Islam declared that a man is not better than another man because of his color or race.
These words the Prophet spoke more than 1400 years ago during his last sermon :

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action."

Hasan   

Edited by honeto - 01 August 2012 at 4:10pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2012 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) is the final messenger of God send to mankind and the Holy Qur'an is the final revelation. All that has been sent before this are null and void and defunct. All those who do not believe in this new revelation are outside of His mercy. For salvation you must believe in Muhammed (pbuh) and his message.
 
Sahih International
Many of the People of the Scripture wish they could turn you back to disbelief after you have believed, out of envy from themselves [even] after the truth has become clear to them. So pardon and overlook until Allah delivers His command. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. 2:109



3:113 They are not all alike. Of the People of the Scripture there is a staunch community who recite the revelations of Allah in the night season, falling prostrate (before Him).
3:114 They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency, and vie one with another in good works. These are of the righteous.
3:115 And whatever good they do, they will not be denied the meed thereof. Allah is Aware of those who ward off (evil).

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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2012 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by honeto

Caringheart,
something is going on. I have replied to your post before here and other threads but somehow many of those posts have disappeared or erased, by whom? only Allah knows.
I am so excited about this thread, comparative studies on religion is my favorite. We are going to have a lot of learning in this one, God willing.


Christians of different colors may still not sit in the same church to offer worship to God here in US
Hasan   


Sorry but I can not really respond since you didn't really respond to what I had written... but these two things...
"something is going on. I have replied to your post before here and other threads but somehow many of those posts have disappeared or erased, by whom? only Allah knows. "
Yes I know... frustrating and discouraging.  It is difficult to hold a conversation when you put in the time, and then half of what you took the time for disappears, and the thread of the conversation is lost... pieces missing.
"Christians of different colors may still not sit in the same church to offer worship to God here in US "
I don't know where you are at, but I know of churches all across the country where you have all races present.   Have you ever attended a church meeting?

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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 02 August 2012 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren




3:113 They are not all alike. Of the People of the Scripture there is a staunch community who recite the revelations of Allah in the night season, falling prostrate (before Him).
3:114 They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency, and vie one with another in good works. These are of the righteous.
3:115 And whatever good they do, they will not be denied the meed thereof. Allah is Aware of those who ward off (evil).

 
This is talking about the Christians and Jews who converted to Islam. See the following tasfir.
 
Yet they, the People of the Scripture, are not all alike, equal; some of the People of the Scripture are a community upright, with integrity, adhering to the truth, such as ‘Abd Allāh b. Salām, may God be pleased with him and his companions, who recite God’s verses in the watches of the night, that is, during its hours, prostrating themselves, performing prayer (wa-hum yasjudūn, ‘prostrating themselves’, is a circumstantial qualifier).

 
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Quote flyffdzd Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2012 at 2:29am
Prophets were sent by God to be living examples of how a true believer should be.
Everything is good!
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2012 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren




3:113 They are not all alike. Of the People of the Scripture there is a staunch community who recite the revelations of Allah in the night season, falling prostrate (before Him).
3:114 They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency, and vie one with another in good works. These are of the righteous.
3:115 And whatever good they do, they will not be denied the meed thereof. Allah is Aware of those who ward off (evil).

 
This is talking about the Christians and Jews who converted to Islam. See the following tasfir.
 
Yet they, the People of the Scripture, are not all alike, equal; some of the People of the Scripture are a community upright, with integrity, adhering to the truth, such as ‘Abd Allāh b. Salām, may God be pleased with him and his companions, who recite God’s verses in the watches of the night, that is, during its hours, prostrating themselves, performing prayer (wa-hum yasjudūn, ‘prostrating themselves’, is a circumstantial qualifier).

 


Right.  Muhammad was always adding qualifiers as afterthoughts.  I thought Qur'an is supposed to be sufficient.  This is why I am unconvinced of Muhammad as prophet of God.  I see him as more of a man advancing his own agenda, which is not to say it was a bad agenda, or that it did not accomplish good things for a time... and still can.


Edited by Caringheart - 04 August 2012 at 4:48pm
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