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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by honeto

Caringheart,
something is going on. I have replied to your post before here and other threads but somehow many of those posts have disappeared or erased, by whom? only Allah knows.
I am so excited about this thread, comparative studies on religion is my favorite. We are going to have a lot of learning in this one, God willing.

Christians of different colors may still not sit in the same church to offer worship to God here in US Hasan   [IMG]smileys/smiley2.gif" align="middle" />
Sorry but I can not really respond since you didn't really respond to what I had written... but these two things...
"something is going on. I have replied to your post before here and
other threads but somehow many of those posts have disappeared or
erased, by whom? only Allah knows.
"
Yes I know... frustrating and discouraging.  It is difficult to hold a conversation when you put in the time, and then half of what you took the time for disappears, and the thread of the conversation is lost... pieces missing.
"Christians of different colors may still not sit in the same church to offer worship to God here in US "
I don't know where you are at, but I know of churches all across the country where you have all races present.   Have you ever attended a church meeting?


Caringheart,
there may be churches that have mixed race members, but I was talking about race based Churches here in the US. Black churches and only white churches all along southern states. It is a common phenomenon, its strange that you seem to be unaware of that.
I have visited several churches in the past.

I did not see you address rest of my post above.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Caringheart


Sorry but I can not really respond since you didn't really respond to what I had written... but these two things...


Caringheart,
there may be churches that have mixed race members, but I was talking about race based Churches here in the US. Black churches and only white churches all along southern states. It is a common phenomenon, its strange that you seem to be unaware of that.
I have visited several churches in the past.

I did not see you address rest of my post above.
Hasan


Hello Hasan,
"Sorry but I can not really respond since you didn't really respond to what I had written... but these two things..."
Did you miss that part of my last reply?  Smile

[edit]
or perhaps I just could not understand what it was you were trying to say?  What can be said about passages in the Qur'an that always have qualifiers about who to like, who to help?  and yet you say the Qur'an says love all.  I see that the Qur'an is very conflicting in what it says.  It's either 'love only those who proclaim to be Muslim' or it is 'love all'.  Which is it that Allah says?  It seems Allah says both.  Whereas, Jesus said 'love all' without qualification.  Jesus never separated Himself from anyone.  He came to call the lost not condemn them.

It is comparative... what Muhammad taught vs. what Jesus taught.
Muhammad seems to have been confused.  Is God a God of confusion? [end edit]

Regarding the separate black churches...
As far as my knowledge extends...
Originally, during the slave days, the blacks attended church with their masters... but sat in separated sections.  I believe the blacks were made to sit in balconies.
When the blacks became free they established their own churches and I believe it has remained this way in great part because the blacks(African Americans) have their own style of worship which does not necessarily appeal to the whites... and vice versa.  Each has their own way and each chooses what suits them best.  The black churches are much more, shall we say vigorous, or animated, in their services.   But I know of a great many integrated churches where people of all colors attend.  It is a matter of preference in the U.S.   People go where they are most comfortable... where they feel they best fit in, or get the most out of their worship service.

Can anyone that wants to, attend a Mosque if they want to?

Heart


Edited by Caringheart - 06 August 2012 at 9:43pm
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 07 August 2012 at 10:13am
Caringheart,
I think you are mixed up and I can help, God willing.
First, God loves his creation, all. It is for that purpose that He showers His Mercy on all, those who deny Him, those who obey Him, and those who are unaware of Him. I am sure religious teachings tell us that. Our God given brain with simple use can figure that out as well.
Now, the second part comes with God giving us the free will and telling us what is right and what is wrong, and to do right and stay away from wrong. God also told us that if we willfully decide to do wrong, we will have its consequence, a punishment. And if we do right as God tell us, thus obey God, we will be rewarded afterward.
Quite simple, so far, I hope.
The above message was universal and preached by All of God's prophets. That is what I have been saying.
You are saying that Jesus, somehow preaches love for all, that need explanation. Are you saying that Jesus' love thingy means that even if you accept or reject God, obey or disobey God, there is no punishment or reward? or with this love, there is no punishment for anyone?
Please clarify your understanding and belief on this, so we can proceed and conclude on this issue.

Caringheart, In USA before the end of segregation in most of the Southern states blacks could not attend anything that was for whites, that included churches, schools, theaters, ride bus or train cars and so on.
To this day there are race oriented churches that only cater on color lines. I know that now there are churches that have mixed color people, but still there are churches that are color oriented.

Attending Mosque:
Any Muslim can attend mosque as a worshiper, any non-Muslim as a visitor, even though in any mosque no one will check if you are a worshiper or visitor at the door.
We get visitors at our mosques here in South Texas often. And since, mosques generally don't have membership people freely worship at different mosques. I myself have prayed at all four mosques in our town. And I have lived in several states and saw similar practices. One more thing, we get Shias ofen attend our mosques too and we worship side by side.
Peace,
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 07 August 2012 at 11:10am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2014 at 10:52am

the words of Yshwe;

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

This reminded me today, of a verse of the qur'an that I remember reading.  Anyone recognize it?

Muhammad spoke of it being a good thing to move to another land when one was not welcomed in their current place, and that allah has his reward for this?



Edited by Caringheart - 04 September 2014 at 11:06am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2014 at 10:31am
hI Caringheart,

It is comparative... what Muhammad taught vs. what Jesus taught.
Muhammad seems to have been confused. Is God a God of confusion? [end edit]

You see when you say the teaching of Jesus what do you mean,where is it where Jesus speaks unequivocally??? you can quote Paul the liar as much as you want we cannot believe the Bible as the true word of God and we have posted several posts on this.You have no evidence.
     


Thank you iec
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2014 at 2:26pm
The Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله was asked: O Messenger of Allah, when will the Qa’im appear from your offspring? So he said: Its [time is] like the proverb of the Hour, about which is said, “He alone will manifest it at its proper time. It is heavy in the heavens and the Earth. It shall not come upon you except unexpectedly.” (7:187)

It seems here that Muhammad is directly quoting Biblical scripture.

Luke 21 - the Word of Yshwe
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.

38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.


'No one knows the hour but the Creator... and that day may may come as a 'thief in the night''

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. (Matthew 24)


32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. (Mark 13)
- all the words of Yshwe



Edited by Caringheart - 06 October 2014 at 2:27pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 08 October 2014 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


The Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله was asked: O Messenger of Allah, when will the Qa’im appear from your offspring? So he said: Its [time is] like the proverb of the Hour, about which is said, “He alone will manifest it at its proper time. It is heavy in the heavens and the Earth. It shall not come upon you except unexpectedly.” (7:187)It seems here that Muhammad is directly quoting Biblical scripture.




Poor Caringheart. You still don't get it. This is proof positive that your heart and head is covered by a veil of misunderstanding.

ALL THE PROPHETS AND MESSENGERS CAME WITH THE SAME MESSAGE.

When will you understand? The MESSAGE is from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala the ONLY ONE GOD.
La Ilaha IllAllah
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 14 October 2014 at 8:56pm

I found this very interesting/enlightening

Honor

Arab storytellers tell the story of a father who is working in the hot sun with two of his sons. When he needed a drink of water, he asked the older of the boys to get him some. 'No, I will not,' the elder son replied.

The father then asked his younger son who said 'Yes, certainly father.' but he did not get the water.

At this point the storyteller always asks his audience, "Which is the better son?"

To give the wrong answer would be shaming but the storyteller knows that his listeners will give the correct answer. The younger son is the better of the two because he had saved his father's face by not defying him.


In the west we would point out that both boys were wrong.

This seems irrelevant to the Arab who does not think in terms of right and wrong, but in terms of shame and honor. To say no to your father's face would be to dishonor him. To agree with him, while in front of him, is to honor him.

When Jesus told a similar story in Matthew 21:28-32, he added that the first son, who refused, later went and did what the father asked. In this way, he restored honor by obeying his father. Jesus used this illustration to show that repentance covers shame, a concept that has been adopted by western Christianity.

I add here the passage... the teaching of Yshwe;

28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.

31 Which of them did the will of his father?

In my own words I add... who truly honors the father?


Edited by Caringheart - 14 October 2014 at 8:59pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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