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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 07 September 2012 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by sultanmuradII

Salam,

This is a false principle that in "worldly affairs" everything is permissible unless clearly forbidden, misunderstood by some people from the principle that objects (material things) have all been created for us to use except the few that have been expressly forbidden. 

 

There is no disagreement with scholars regarding areas of worship needing textual evidence before engaging.  The affairs of a country are so vast surely you can’t expect text prior to action.  This is not to say that text on some aspects are not mentioned, and when found they are applied, but as a general rule one is not precluded from action as in the case of ibadah.  An example on a micro level would be you as leader of your home.  In December you wouldn’t put up Christmas lights around your home and sing Christmas carols, because we can point to text which would forbid this practice for a Muslim, however if you desired to cut your grass twice monthly as opposed to once a week, this requires only your judgment as to what is best for your home.  There is no difference on the macro level for governing a country.  The general rule is permissibly in matters having nothing to do with worship, therefore if Egypt requires a fee for cargo ships entering port Zeit,  this is the prerogative of Egyptian Port Authority – as in cutting your grass twice monthly – general rule, permissibly for matters outside of worship.    

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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2012 at 6:27am
Originally posted by abuayisha

Originally posted by sultanmuradII

Salam, This is a false principle that in "worldly affairs" everything is permissible unless clearly forbidden, misunderstood by some people from the principle that objects (material things) have all been created for us to use except the few that have been expressly forbidden. 

 

<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Msonormal><FONT face=Calibri>There is no disagreement with scholars regarding areas of worship needing textual evidence before engaging.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>The affairs of a country are so vast surely you can’t expect text prior to action.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>This is not to say that text on some aspects are not mentioned, and when found they are applied, but as a general rule one is not precluded from action as in the case of ibadah.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>An example on a micro level would be you as leader of your home.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>In December you wouldn’t put up Christmas lights around your home and sing Christmas carols, because we can point to text which would forbid this practice for a Muslim, however if you desired to cut your grass twice monthly as opposed to once a week, this requires only your judgment as to what is best for your home.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>There is no difference on the macro level for governing a country.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>The general rule is permissibly in matters having nothing to do with worship, therefore if Egypt requires a fee for cargo ships entering port Zeit, <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>this is the prerogative of Egyptian Port Authority – as in cutting your grass twice monthly – general rule, permissibly for matters outside of worship. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">   </SPAN>



Salam brother.

Morsy's comment exposes the "Islamist's" on how they dropped Islam for approval and backing from America. As for applying Islam as a ruling system then we have to adhere to the method of the Messenger (saw) and prepare the grounds by culturing people with Islam as an ideology and once people are aware of the nature of the Islamic Aqeedah being spiritual and political and the desire is to live by Islam then we'll have to assume power so that Islam can be applied.

I hope you'll stop making excuses for people who don't deserve it.

There is an huge effort being waged in distorting the Imaage of a state based on religion (Islam) and this is why America is now using the likes of AK party, Muslim brotherhood and An-Nahda to propmote the idea of a "Civil State".

Erdogan and his new associates explicitly call for a civil state and reject the idea of a state based on religion.

This Article may make you think twice:

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/14/166814.html

They know what they mean by a "civil state" but some of us seem to fall for their justifications over what they actually mean.

May Allah (swt) guide us to what pleases Him most.
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2012 at 7:09am
Those that are interested in facts may have a read of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

"The Brotherhood's credo was and is, "Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations."[9][10] The Brotherhood's English language website describes the "principles of the Muslim Brotherhood" as including firstly the introduction of the Islamic Shari`ah as "the basis for controlling the affairs of state and society;" and secondly work to unify "Islamic countries and states, mainly among the Arab states, and liberating them from foreign imperialism"

"Its founder, Hassan Al-Banna, was influenced by Islamic reformers Muhammad Abduh and Rashid Rida. In the group's belief, the Quran and Sunnah constitute a perfect way of life and social and political organization that God has set out for man. Islamic governments must be based on this system and eventually unified in a Caliphate. The Muslim Brotherhood's goal, as stated by Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna was to reclaim Islam's manifest destiny, an empire, stretching from Spain to Indonesia.[19] It preaches that Islam enjoins man to strive for social justice, the eradication of poverty and corruption, and political freedom to the extent allowed by the laws of Islam. The Brotherhood strongly opposes Western colonialism, and helped overthrow the pro-western monarchies in Egypt and other Muslim countries during the early 20th century."

"The Muslim Brotherhood's candidate for Egypt's 2012 presidential election was Mohamed Morsi. The Egyptian cleric Safwat Higazi spoke at the announcement rally for the Muslim Brotherhood's candidate Morsi and expressed his hope and belief that Morsi would liberate Gaza, restore the Caliphate of the "United States of the Arabs" with Jerusalem as its capital, and that "our cry shall be: 'Millions of martyrs march towards Jerusalem.'"

HOPEFULLY SOME PEOPLE WILL REALISE FROM THE ABOVE HOW CERTAIN MOVEMENTS HAVE DROPPED WHAT THEY ARE USUALLY KNOWN FOR IN ORDER TO GET TO WHERE THEY ARE NOW.


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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2012 at 9:04am
Originally posted by i.dawa


HOPEFULLY SOME PEOPLE WILL REALISE FROM THE ABOVE HOW CERTAIN MOVEMENTS HAVE DROPPED WHAT THEY ARE USUALLY KNOWN FOR IN ORDER TO GET TO WHERE THEY ARE NOW.
 
Great! Welcome to the real Islam.  I don't see how a declaration of "Islamic State" will somehow transform the life of everyday Egyptians struggling to feed, clothe, and educate their children.  Muslims, in whatever country they are found today, are more in need of substance, and can do without ceremonial formalities aimed only at pleasing the radical few.  Why must civil necessary equal un-Islamic?  Any "civil" society that upholds religion, life, intellect, offspring and property - all of which are the basis of sharia, is a great place for a Muslim to reside, in spite of  your need for formal proclamations.
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 11 September 2012 at 10:06am
Dear brother abuayisha.

Let’s not discuss for the sake of discussion and pay some attention to what is actually being highlighted in this discussion.

1) The "Islamist" parties in the Arab/Muslim world have dropped what they were founded upon such as the idea of Khilafah, unity of Muslim lands, Implementation of sharia etc now that they're in power.

2) We are not saying they should declare Egypt as an Islamic State and everything will then be ok. The point is they did not stick to what they are known for. We would like you and other Muslims to take this in to account.

3) I hope you read the bit where I said how a state is built as per the sharia method. In our opinion we have to rule by Islam, which requires a state to exist which will then look after the affairs of its people.

I have a few questions for you:

1) Is Islam perfect and complete?
2) What did the Messenger of Allah (saw) rule by after establishing the state in Medina?
3) Were the Messenger (saw) and His companions radicals?

"Any "civil" society that upholds religion, life, intellect, offspring and property - all of which are the basis of sharia, is a great place for a Muslim to reside, in spite of your need for formal proclamations."

4) Please can you provide the evidences (dalil/proof) for the above statement?

Jzk-Allah



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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 11 September 2012 at 1:01pm
With respect to your first question, Allah says, 'This day have I perfected your religion for your, completed My favors upon you......."
 
Our Prophet, who cannot be compared to any other, ruled by the Book of Allah, and even prior to prophethood he was known to be kind, honest and humble.  He was a devoted husband, religious teacher and statesman.  Sir George Bernard Shaw said; 'He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, initiated numerous social and political reforms, established a powerful and dynamic society to practice and represent his teachings and completely revolutionized the worlds of human thought and behavior for all times to come.'
 
Your question as to whether or not our Messenger and his companions were radical is assumed to be rhetorical, however I answer by saying it is important that scholars consider time, place and circumstance when applying fiqh.
 
Lastly, as I mentioned before, Abyssinia is an example of where the Messenger of Allah sent his companions in order to protect their religion, life, intellect, offspring and property.
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 11:03am
Just a quick reply and Insha-Allah will elaborate further in the future.

1) The Prophet (saw) showed us how to live by Islam (all of it). He (saw) is an example to follow and it is obligatory and denial would mean amount kufr.

2) In order for there to be an Islamic State there has to be a group who works with the ummah in order to prepare the grounds - similar to what the Messenger (saw) did and Medina was where the birth of Islamic State happened. I urge the Muslims to read a reliable Seerah Book for further knowledge.

3) A group who is working for Khilafah cannot assume power unless the Ummah is revived intellectually and understands that the Islamic Aqeedah is a political and a spiritual one.

4) The case with Abyssinia shows that Muslim are allowed to seek political asylum to flee from persecution. It is not proof to suggest that we should leave the systems of Islam and establish a "just" society as per any other criterion other than Islam. The prophet (saw) did not say we should build a state like the one Abyssinia.

5) America has succeeded in making some Muslims ashamed of Islam and now some Muslims judge Islam according to what the Kafir's likings.

6) Nothing has change in terms of the battle between Truth and Falsehood (iman and kufr). Shaytan still exists and he's mission is to misguide mankind and lead to the fire. The day of resurrection is true and the world will come to an end. Let us not get fooled by those who oppose the Islamic way of life and talk about modernity and the need for reforms. Islam is here to deal with all problems at all times.

7) Let us not look for "loop Holes" in order to twist the truth and bring it in conformity with kufr. Let us not be shy to say Allah's revelation is the best and man has no right to legislate.

8) Let us not twist what is being said here and think that we should wage a war with the non Muslims. Let us look at the early stages of Islam and see how the Messenger (saw) dealt with kufr and how He (saw) made Islam prevail.

9) Scholars in Islam are not evidence and their job is to explain the Sharia rules and not to invent them.

10) The Messenger (saw) was sent as mercy to mankind with Islam and Islam is mercy. In other words only the rule of Islam can liberate mankind from the falsehood to the correct way of life. Mercy does not mean turn a blind eye to kufr and accept the current norm (kufr).

Here’s a video on the topic of Khilafah:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoB0gY80Mlk

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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 3:28pm

1. Denial of what means kufr?

2. Which book in your estimation is the most reliable seerah?

3.  Please explain further….

4. What is your evidence?  Abyssinia was primary for preservation of deen, and not political

persecution.

5. What is an example to illustrate your concern?

6.  Let us move beyond slogans and speak in specifics.

7. 
“If you fear a breach between the twain (the man and his wife), appoint (two) arbitrators, one from his family and the other from hers; if they both wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation. Indeed Allah is Ever All-­Knower, Well­-Acquainted with all things.” (Quran, 4:35)

Did not Allah make man an arbitrator?  The default unless having to do with deen is permissibility. 

8.  Well, certainly whenever there is an action a reaction follows, thus all the more reason we should speak clearly and to the point.

9. An example would be helpful to know what is meant here.

10.  Nor should we not use our sense in not creating a greater harm, because this may indeed mean certain matters are not carried out. 


Ibn az-Zubayr said, "I heard Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) say, 'The Prophet said: "If your people had not quite recently abandoned the Ignorance (Unbelief), and if I had sufficient provisions to rebuild it [the Kaba], I would have added five cubits to it from the Hijr. Also, I would make two doors; one for people to enter therein and the other to exit." (Bukhari).



Edited by abuayisha - 01 October 2012 at 6:17am
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