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Message Icon Topic: Arab Spring - The Great Deception Post Reply Post New Topic
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i.dawa
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 07 August 2012 at 9:30am
Originally posted by abuayisha

<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Msonormal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">   </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><FONT face=Calibri>Muslims to live by anything other than the sharia    Are Muslims allowed to rule by anything other than the Sharia <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN>


<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0.25in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto" =Msonormal><FONT face=Calibri><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: Meiryo; mso-fareast-: JA">It was related on the authority of Abu Sa’id Sa’d bin Malik bin Sinan al-Khudri, radiyallahu ‘anhu, that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, said: </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #301818; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: Meiryo; mso-fareast-: JA"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>


<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0.25in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto" =Msonormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: Meiryo; mso-fareast-: JA"><FONT face=Calibri>“There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.” <o:p></o:p></SPAN>


<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0.25in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto" =Msonormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family: Meiryo; mso-fareast-: JA"><FONT face=Calibri>This is the essence of sharia, and the reason why Prophet Muhammad sent almost half of his ummah (at that time) to live under the Christian rule of Najashi.<o:p></o:p></SPAN>


<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0.25in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto" =Msonormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><FONT size=3 face=Calibri>     <FONT face=Calibri>Are Muslims allowed to be divided on nationalistic borders     Can Muslims have more than one ruler at one time<o:p></o:p></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Msonormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><FONT size=3 face=Calibri>If seeking to bring about a situation where no borders exist, or only one Sultan to rule over all the Muslims, will bring about a greater harm than having borders (Nation States) and separate rulers, it becomes mandatory to leave matters as they are.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>You tell me; how much blood would be have to flow in order to bring about your utopian vision?</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>



1)The hadith about "harm" does not nullify all the other Ahkams does it?

2)What is your definition of "harm" and who defines it?

Consider the following ayah's and ahadith before replying:

“It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." [Qur’aan 33:36]

"Fighting is ordained for you, even though it be hateful to you; but it may well be that you hate a thing the while it is good for you, and it may well be that you love a thing the while it is bad for you: and God knows, whereas you do not know" 2:216 Quran

“I have been ordered to fight people until they profess that there is no god but Allah. If they said it, their lives and their wealth would be inviolable to me, except that which is by right and Allah (swt) will hold them accountable.” (Hadith)

"Verily, those who conceal the clear proofs, evidences and the guidance, which We have sent down, after We have made it clear for the people in the book, they are the ones cursed by Allah and cursed by the cursers." [al-Qur'aan, al-Baqara(2):159]

"And who is better in speech than he who invites to Allah and does righteous deeds, and says: 'I am one of the Muslims.'" [al-Qur'aan, Fussilat(41):33]

"And rule between them by that which Allah has revealed and follow not their vain desires, but beware that they may turn you away from some of what Allah has revealed." (Qur'an, 5:49)

“It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, to make it superior over all religions, even though the Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).” [9: 33]

“Alif Lam Ra, a Book which We have revealed unto you in order that you might lead mankind out of the depths of darkness into light by the leave of their Lord to the Way of the Exalted in power, the Worthy of all praise.” [TMQ 14-1]

“You are the best nation sent to mankind, you enjoin what is righteous and forbid what is evil.” [TMQ 3-110]

"There will come a time in my Ummah where there will be nothing left from Islam but its name and nothing left from the Qur'aan but its letters. Many mosques will be built but they will be empty from guidance. No hudood will be established, and they will not call to Islam nor command the good and forbid the evil. They will be the worst of creations." (Hadith)

,"The Muslim Ummah is a unique Ummah among the whole of mankind: Their LAND is ONE, their WAR is ONE, their PEACE is ONE, their HONOR is ONE and their TRUST is ONE". (Hadith)

Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,

"He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyyah or who dies for `Asabiyyah."

I'd like to go by what Allah and His Messenger (saw)say. The possibility of "harm" as per your suggestion did not stop the Messenger (saw) to establish the authority of Islam, nor did it stop Him (saw) and the companions from ruling over people by Islam. The whole of Arabian peninsula did not come under the authority of Islam automatically without any efforts and planning from the Muslims.

Good and Bad is defined by Allah not you and I, and certainly not the kuffar.

The enemies of Islam have managed to convince certain Muslims with the help of some "scholars for dollars" that calling for Islam and the unity of Muslim lands as Islam orders will result in bloodshed and it'll go against the norm of today so therefore we should be tolerant of kufr and live under its dominion.

"Islam dominates and nothing else dominates above it."

Daraqutni, Al-Bayhaqi, At-Tabarani

Edited by i.dawa - 07 August 2012 at 9:35am
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i.dawa
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 13 August 2012 at 10:35am
A youtube talk on the Arab Spring..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQIWQsz-UUg
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 13 August 2012 at 11:25am

The essence of our religion is concerned with the preservation of five basic and fundamental rights;

religion, life, intellect, offspring and property.  If we allow you to insist upon your misguided and unrealistic quest, all of the above rights I have as a human are compromised.  My definition of harm - given what you are proposing would be as I previously mention,  what amount of blood are you will to shed seeking your goal?  When our former Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright was asked if she felt that reports of a half million children dying was worth it, she said the price was worth it.  I explain "harm" in these terms.  When resultant harm to religion, life, intellect, offspring and property is greater than what you are seeking to achieve it becomes mandatory for you to adopt another approach.  And I say patience is best.  Wallahu Mustaan! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll)

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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 13 August 2012 at 11:36am
[QUOTE=i.dawa]A youtube talk on the Arab Spring..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQIWQsz-UUg[/QUOTE]
 
Well, it is certainly a gross overstatement to consider Hizbutahrir to be "the voice of the ummah" however, after having viewed this video yourself, are there any points you'd like to share on the Arab Spring?
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2012 at 9:45am
In the wake of the upheavals that have shaken the Arab world since December 2010, activists, politicians, and analysts have all been searching for new, democratic models of governance that could come into force in these lands. The cases of Iraq and Turkey are perhaps the most obvious choices to examine based on the notion that these are the only examples of functioning democracies within Muslim-majority nations of the Middle East.

http://www.meforum.org/3293/iraq-turkey-democratization


What is Turkey's position in the Greater Middle East Initiative?

We want to look at “the Greater Middle East Initiative and the position of Turkey in this initiative” in the light of changing structure of the political scenes and concepts.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=...rticleID=71637

SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR FURTHER READING WHICH TALKS ABOUT THE "GMEI" AND THE "TURKISH MODEL".

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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2012 at 3:45pm

Originally posted by i.dawa

Now the questions need to be asked whether it is allowed in Islam (which is complete and perfect) for:

A)     Muslims to live by anything other than the sharia
B)     Are Muslims allowed to rule by anything other than the Sharia
C)     Are Muslims allowed to be divided on nationalistic borders
D)     Can Muslims have more than one ruler at one time
The answer to the above questions is “NO”.

I think you forgot the most important one, when it comes to politics:

E)  Are Muslims allowed to impose their religion on non-Muslims?
The answer to that is also "NO".  There is no compulsion in religion.
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2012 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by i.dawa

Now the questions need to be asked whether it is allowed in Islam (which is complete and perfect) for:

A)     Muslims to live by anything other than the sharia
B)     Are Muslims allowed to rule by anything other than the Sharia
C)     Are Muslims allowed to be divided on nationalistic borders
D)     Can Muslims have more than one ruler at one time
The answer to the above questions is “NO”.

I think you forgot the most important one, when it comes to politics:

E)  Are Muslims allowed to impose their religion on non-Muslims?
The answer to that is also "NO".  There is no compulsion in religion.


and what about oppression? 
You forgot oppression which supposedly Muhammad was strongly against.   

What does the Qur'an say about oppression(denying rights) of those who do not share in the religion? 

It seems I remember Muhammad speaking about fighting oppression wherever you find it.  And yet, where do you find the most oppression?

It seems that as much as Muhammad spoke against oppression, he also spoke for it.
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i.dawa
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2012 at 4:08pm
I'm going to give you a short answer for now..

You are right because muslim aren't allowed to force others to become muslims. For one to become a muslim it has to be by their own will after they acknowledge that Islam is the Truth.

On the other hand the system by which muslims govern their affairs has to be according to Islam. The non-muslims in the Islamic State have certain rights and they're not treated as some non-muslims would like to imagine.

I'll advise you to do some research if you are interested in finding out more.

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