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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 2:31pm

 US funding of activities is one matter, but if this funding and youth group were directly and primarily responsible for the geneses of Syria's uprising (Arab Spring) is speculation at best.

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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by abuayisha


Originally posted by i.dawa


As for the Arab Spring and the Great Deception to secularise the Ummah it would be nice to hear the comments of Muslim participants!!


 
<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;" ="Msonormal"><span style='color: black; line-height: 115%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;'>I think the notion that the Arab Spring
flows from some sort of 'great deception' crafted by western European countries
should be debated in the section on conspiracies.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>I personally see no evidence for this assertion.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I do
believe it is only prudent that when western interests are involved, that
political outcomes in these countries will indeed have continued western engagement.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;" ="Msonormal"><span style='color: black; line-height: 115%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;'>With respect to secularizing the Ummah by
external forces it begs the question and debate of Islam and the secular state,
and even, what constitutes the secular state, and whether or not there is
compatibility.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Surely Islam as evidenced
in Spain had little or no problem with pluralism and religious freedom.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Today, Muslims are by no means homogeneous
and it becomes a question of what Muslims want and believe.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>In the interest of not treading a secular
democracy do Muslim wish to live the example of Sudan, Iran and Afghanistan?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Are the many millions of Muslims currently
living in western countries who are thriving and living in peace and security
willing to trade this for a theocratic rule?<o:p></o:p></span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;" ="Msonormal"><span style='color: black; line-height: 115%; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 9pt;'>My own personal opinion is that radical
change in a country isn't sustainable and a path of moderation, and balance
between tradition and change - using consensus/democracy is the best way
forward. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>How else will it become manageable
in a country like Syria when dealing with Muslims (several different groups)
Shia, (several different beliefs), Alawites, Jews, Christians (maybe a dozen different
denominations) Druze, and Jihadis (and other such criminal thugs and gangs). <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Do you
really think this could become the seat of an Islamic Khilafah?!</span>

<font size="3" face="Times New Roman">



Salam Brother.

Jzk-Allah for your comments.

You see the problem is we all know that Islam is complete and perfect and yet this doesn't always reflect in our approach towards addressing issues so that we may firstly understand what we're dealing with.

We must accept that as Muslims we have to refer back Allah and His Messenger (saw), and every dispute must be settled according to Islam and not our own minds.

Sometimes Muslims get lost and confused so they start expressing opinions which doesn't conform to sharia rules because most of us are unaware of the reality of the struggle undergone by Allah's Messenger (saw).

The Messenger's struggle was to uproot kufr and spread Islam. This struggle was political in nature because He (saw) was actively seeking to establish the authority of Islam. As you probably know after many years of struggle Allah (swt) granted victory to the Muslims and the Islamic State in Medina was established. From there the dawa was launched on a State level while the Muslims implemented Allah's laws within the State.

After the Messenger (saw) passed away the companions of the Messenger (saw) carried on with the implementation of Islam and the spread of it to other nations.

This is how Islam manifests itself in a society.

Now some Muslims today would argue that times have changed and we live amongst other people of different beliefs and sects so therefore an Islamic Rule like of the Messenger (saw) will not work and so on. They will argue that we need an approach which is compatible with our reality today where we can accommodate the differences that exists in our countries etc.

Now the questions need to be asked whether it is allowed in Islam (which is complete and perfect) for:

A)     Muslims to live by anything other than the sharia
B)     Are Muslims allowed to rule by anything other than the Sharia
C)     Are Muslims allowed to be divided on nationalistic borders
D)     Can Muslims have more than one ruler at one time
The answer to the above questions is “NO”.

Now anyone who suggests that we need an approach which is more compatible today should take in to account all the sharia rules and then provide an answer as to how we go about living by Islam.

For some people (Muslims) when they talk about a different approach compatible with today depart from the wrong premise. They’re answers are from their own minds and not sharia. It is more in line with what is acceptable by people other than Muslims. They ignore sharia rules and end up legislating rules which are not from Islam in order to make Islam fit in the current norm. This is what the Muslim Brotherhood is doing. This is wrong because trying to please anybody other than Allah (swt) would be sinful and could even lead to kufr.
As Muslims we have to command the good and forbid the evil, change our reality so that it conforms to Islam and not the other way round where some people end start changing sharia rules so that it fits in to the reality.
Now to those who do not perceive the nature of the Islamic Aqeedah taking in to account that Allah (swt) is the creator, to Him belongs everything, and this life is a test (battle between Iman and Kufr), day of reckoning etc can we ignore the ayah of the Quran and be selective with our Islam and take guidance from those who are considered to be the enemies of Allah?

Allah’s deen is perfect and within this deen there are rules which take care of a society which is composed of Muslims and non-Muslims.

Today the so-called “extremists” who go round attacking non-Muslims in the name of Islam have helped those who use incidents like this in order to frighten people of Islam. Incidents like this are used to stir up debate and discussions whether religion (Islam) should be part of ruling or not. The enemies of Allah are those who oppose Islam, and it is those people and nations who are constantly pushing ideas which are non Islamic and yet coated in such manner that it seems very appealing to people and especially the Muslims and in particular the Muslims who reside in Muslim countries Arab countries due to their reality (living under dictatorial regimes).

Before we talk about what will work for our time and whether a radical change which is completely in favour of Islam will work or not we should remind ourselves of some golden rules in Islam such as:

Islam is a perfect deen revealed by Allah which comes with its own set of rules. Since it is a perfect deen it does not accept human intervention in devising a method of implementing the sharia rules. The job of the mind is to apply the sharia rules and it is forbidden for man to legislate in Islam. Every matter has to be referred back to the Sharia, and it is a condition on the Muslims to emulate the Messenger (saw) and none other because He (saw) is the best example to follow and this is the order of Allah (swt).

As for Muslims who may be living in non-Muslim countries and who may think that they’re able to practice their religion without any complications – well, this is only because Islam is just a personal religion for them and they do not appreciate the fact that Islam is a way of life, a rational Aqeedah/Ideology which needs to be implemented, protected and propagated to other nations.
A Muslim cannot judge right and wrong and what work and doesn't work from his own experiences rather he has to see if Allah’s commands are being obeyed (all of them) and if not then he should question why not and how it can be obeyed.

Around 80% of Islam is to do with rules and regulations which can only be administered by an Islamic State. The Islamic Ummah is responsible for the Implementation of Islam and the propagation of it. This is easily accepted by those who know that this life is a test and it is a battle between truth and falsehood.

I hope I’ve answered some of your points and insha-Allah next time I will give some references from Quran and Sunnah.


Edited by i.dawa - 06 August 2012 at 4:19pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by abuayisha


I think the notion that the Arab Spring flows from some sort of 'great deception' crafted by western European countries should be debated in the section on conspiracies.  I personally see no evidence for this assertion.   I do believe it is only prudent that when western interests are involved, that political outcomes in these countries will indeed have continued western engagement.

With respect to secularizing the Ummah by external forces it begs the question and debate of Islam and the secular state, and even, what constitutes the secular state, and whether or not there is compatibility.  Surely Islam as evidenced in Spain had little or no problem with pluralism and religious freedom.  Today, Muslims are by no means homogeneous and it becomes a question of what Muslims want and believe.  In the interest of not treading a secular democracy do Muslim wish to live the example of Sudan, Iran and Afghanistan?  Are the many millions of Muslims currently living in western countries who are thriving and living in peace and security willing to trade this for a theocratic rule?

My own personal opinion is that radical change in a country isn't sustainable and a path of moderation, and balance between tradition and change - using consensus/democracy is the best way forward.  How else will it become manageable in a country like Syria when dealing with Muslims (several different groups) Shia, (several different beliefs), Alawites, Jews, Christians (maybe a dozen different denominations) Druze, and Jihadis (and other such criminal thugs and gangs).   Do you really think this could become the seat of an Islamic Khilafah?!



Thumbs%20Up


Edited by Caringheart - 06 August 2012 at 6:02pm
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by i.dawa

Like I suggested carinhgheart should discuss whether Islam is the Truth or not and whatever he follows should be put to the test. Please start a new thread cause the discussion here is nothing to do with non-muslims hence you are being ignored.

As for the Arab Spring and the Great Deception to secularise the Ummah it would be nice to hear the comments of Muslim participants!!



What a wonderful example of what it means to be a follower of beloved prophet Muhammad and the teaching of the Qur'an.

Disapprove

"... following the rituals of Holy Qur’an, we were ordered to debate the others with wisdom and good faith. The Almighty Allah is the ONLY one who knows the intentions and the ONLY one who has the final judgment. It is not allowed to accuse the others of being strayed and/or blasphemous."


Edited by Caringheart - 06 August 2012 at 8:20pm
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 7:22pm
Around 80% of Islam is to do with rules and regulations which can only be administered by an Islamic State. 
 

No need to make this religion complicated.  From where I sit in Los Angeles it is easy to apply the following:

 

Narrated Talha bin 'Ubaid-Ullah:

A bedouin with unkempt hair came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Inform me what Allah has made compulsory for me as regards the prayers." He replied: "You have to offer perfectly the five compulsory prayers in a day and night (24 hours), unless you want to pray Nawafil." The bedouin further asked, "Inform me what Allah has made compulsory for me as regards fasting." He replied, "You have to fast during the whole month of Ramadan, unless you want to fast more as Nawafil." The bedouin further asked, "Tell me how much Zakat Allah has enjoined on me." Thus, Allah's Apostle informed him about all the rules (i.e. fundamentals) of Islam. The bedouin then said, "By Him Who has honored you, I will neither perform any Nawafil nor will I decrease what Allah has enjoined on me. Allah's Apostle said, "If he is saying the truth, he will succeed (or he will be granted Paradise)."



Edited by abuayisha - 06 August 2012 at 7:25pm
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2012 at 7:45pm

   Muslims to live by anything other than the sharia
   Are Muslims allowed to rule by anything other than the Sharia

It was related on the authority of Abu Sa’id Sa’d bin Malik bin Sinan al-Khudri, radiyallahu ‘anhu, that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, said:

“There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.”

This is the essence of sharia, and the reason why Prophet Muhammad sent almost half of his ummah (at that time) to live under the Christian rule of Najashi.


     Are Muslims allowed to be divided on nationalistic borders
    Can Muslims have more than one ruler at one time

If seeking to bring about a situation where no borders exist, or only one Sultan to rule over all the Muslims, will bring about a greater harm than having borders (Nation States) and separate rulers, it becomes mandatory to leave matters as they are.  You tell me; how much blood would be have to flow in order to bring about your utopian vision?

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Quote AbuUbaydah Replybullet Posted: 07 August 2012 at 5:34am
As-Salaamu Alaikum,

If I may add a few comments. Indeed what is correct and obligatory according to shariah is not suspended on the basis of there being no/ less benefit or more harm. Allah azawajal says in the Quran, paraphrasing - that you may think something is good when in fact it is not and you may think something is bad when in fact it is good - Allah knows and you know not. If we are to argue along the lines of benefit/harm then we have removed ourselves far from the straight path, for our criterion is no longer obedience to Al-Hakim. This is a dangerous idea. It must be said also that this is not the same as one seeking the most practical way to fulfill an obligation either. One may look to take the easier of any options providing of course they are permissable in the first place. However, the obligation is never suspended due to a difficulty.

Specifically addressing the situation in the Muslim lands, one need not engage in armed rebellion to overthrow existing despotic regimes and kingdoms, nor does long lasting change come through the replacement of a ruler - Change will come if the masses were to unite upon the correct ideas i.e. accepting that sovereignty belongs to Allah, refusal of nation states and unification of the Muslims etc - popular rejection will result in the authority of the villains ruling the Muslim lands being stripped away. This however does not mean that the ruling powers will give up too easy or will not look to contain any threat but this is when the courage of the Muslims will be brought into the fore. Change will not come about simply by sitting at home. Allah draws a comparison in the Quran asking whether such a person is the same as one striving in the way of Allah. Sacrifice is a central ideal and we should be reminded of it especially in Ramadan. We will have to sacrifice everything we have, our time, our health while we're young, money and resources to align the Muslims upon the truth. We should not be scared of sacrifices.

Touching upon the ''conspiracy". Visit this website www.mepi.state.gov to get a better idea how the popular will of the Muslims is being steered away from a true Islamic rule. Funding program's and grooming groups and individual's to subplant democracy and secularism in the minds of the masses. By raising awareness of this issue, we can to work to avert the Muslims from following this path. One just has to follow the news to perceive these plans. I agree that foreign powers do not wield the Muslims like a puppet on a string - using a hidden remote control to steer events on a divine level of precision. However they do plan very effectively and they lay down effective foundations to ensure they bear fruit. Unfortunately it is us who are duped time and time again and it is us that do not rise the challenge of explaining Islam and calling for it holistically.
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Quote i.dawa Replybullet Posted: 07 August 2012 at 8:41am
Originally posted by abuayisha

Around 80% of Islam is to do with rules and regulations which can only be administered by an Islamic State. 
 


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" =Msonormal><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><FONT face=Calibri>No need to make this religion complicated.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>From where I sit in Los Angeles it is easy to apply the following:<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P></SPAN>



 

<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin"><FONT face=Calibri>Narrated Talha bin 'Ubaid-Ullah: A bedouin with unkempt hair came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Inform me what Allah has made compulsory for me as regards the prayers." He replied: "You have to offer perfectly the five compulsory prayers in a day and night (24 hours), unless you want to pray Nawafil." The bedouin further asked, "Inform me what Allah has made compulsory for me as regards fasting." He replied, "You have to fast during the whole month of Ramadan, unless you want to fast more as Nawafil." The bedouin further asked, "Tell me how much Zakat Allah has enjoined on me." Thus, Allah's Apostle informed him about all the rules (i.e. fundamentals) of Islam. The bedouin then said, "By Him Who has honored you, I will neither perform any Nawafil nor will I decrease what Allah has enjoined on me. Allah's Apostle said, "If he is saying the truth, he will succeed (or he will be granted Paradise)."



<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" ="Msonormal"><?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><O:P></O:P>
</SPAN>



Salam Brother.

The hadith you quoted could be conditional and perhaps this was only relevant to the Bedouin. This hadith cannot be generalise in such manner that if all Muslims were to do only what is mentioned in the hadith the they'll end up neglecting other obligatory matters in the deen such Hajj, obeying ones parents, providing for one’s family, carrying dawa etc, refraining from backbiting, staying away from Riba etc.

The Deen is a complete way of life and not just a few rituals. The Quran and the Books of hadith contains many duties other than those mentioned in the above hadith and neglecting them would be sinful.

May Allah guide us to what pleases Him most.





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