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Message Icon Topic: Hijab - Freedom NOT Oppression : Opinion Post Reply Post New Topic
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 16 October 2012 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

@Abu Loren,One could say that Muhammad was sexist. If he spoke for God, then I guess that would make God sexist. God who created Adam and Eve, naked in the garden. *scratches headIt was sin that made Adam and Eve cover themselves. Did God tell them to do this?Now I am not saying that I am against modesty. I am against anything that might tempt one to sin... to lust... as God did address in the ten commandments. But I do not think God prescribed a dress code other than covering of the head, or hair, so as not to tempt the nephilim... but not to cover the face erasing all identity.


Caringheart,
you can see that in today's world how to dress up is one of the most important thing in a person's the daily life.
People spend a great deal of time and money toward it. I see sometimes ladies wearing three or four layers of tops one over the other, and still revealing all what God gave them as gifts.
Do you think that God will leave such an important item (dressing up) from the guidance He sent?
Not so. I, as a Muslim believe that every thing that was of any importance to us in our daily life God spoke of it.
How and what we eat, how we deal with others, likewise, how we dress reveals about who we are. Here in the West (now almost everywhere, as the Western culture is adopted by many) I see most of the people follow trends regardless of what they mean or represent. For example I see a lot of women walking around literally only in what was used not too long ago as nighties and bedtime cloths. Now people proudly wear what was only limited to the bedroom's privacy. Some ladies dress and proudly walk in public with cloths wore by movie whores and prostitutes only half a century ago or so. Does this trend ends anywhere? Some places in Western world already have naked women roaming free.
So I do not think Caringheart that God who wanted us to be rightly guided toward a good moral life will exclude such an important element of our life.
If your religion has missed to address it, it is not complete. If you have missed it, you need to explore it. It is there.
The reason that in Islam Allah addresses this issue is because Islam is a complete way of life. It guides its followers in every aspect of life. Those who follow it follow it for their own good.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 16 October 2012 at 2:07pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 17 October 2012 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren


If I'm not mistaken the majority of Muslims in Germany are Turks and I wouldn't say they are progressive but I would call them 'Westernised Muslims'.


It was the Turks that were responsible for the establishment of the Ottoman empire.
Just something to think about.
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2012 at 4:04am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Abu Loren

If I'm not mistaken the majority of Muslims in Germany are Turks and I wouldn't say they are progressive but I would call them 'Westernised Muslims'.

It was the Turks that were responsible for the establishment of the Ottoman empire.Just something to think about.


And what a waste the Ottoman Empire was?
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2012 at 5:21am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXzUuKdfnRE

Edited by Chrysalis - 25 October 2012 at 5:22am
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2012 at 5:30am
Miss Universe contestant tries hijab in Australia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_j4s06Nu7Y

Edited by Chrysalis - 25 October 2012 at 5:42am
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Chrysalis
 
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Quote Chrysalis Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2012 at 5:35am
Non-Muslim Hijabi Youtuber "Gothmummi" on why she wears hijab:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fos2ydSmfkQ&feature=relmfu
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Nausheen
 
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2012 at 9:12am
Originally posted by Matt Browne

Hakeema, I'm fully aware that there are two groups of women when it comes to wearing face veils. One group chooses to wear it and the other group is forced by their husbands to wear it. Just because you choose to wear it doesn't mean there are no women who are forced to wear it.

The vitamin D part is a side issue, though an important one. The key issue here is that Muslims don't respect non-Muslim cultures and dress codes when living in the Dar al-harb. And we people in the West are so foolish that we even tolerate intolerance. Allah hates us. Devout Muslims hate us and we say, oh, that's their culture and we have to respect different cultures.

We can't change the fact that women in Saudi Arabia and southern Afghanistan are treated like cattle. But we won't have any of this in Detroit, London, Paris, Madrid and Berlin. And that's not racist. That is defending values and our freedom and human rights.


 
Dont have the patience to read thru everything. Was somewhat surprised this string has gone as long as 10 pages ...
 
Like this post very much, so wanted to comment.
 
1. There is another category of women, or rather a subtype - women who cover despite their husbands being against the hijab ... sad but true!
 
2. Are you sure you are genuinly concerned about us getting enough vit D, and not fooling us into exposing ourselves to UV irradiation? ... just kidding :)
Yes I know how important vid D3 is. But a very short period of sunlight directly on the bones is sufficient to make all the vit D3 one needs. Thank you for your conecers and reminders.
 
3. I dont understand what you mean by us not respecting other's dress code. If one is a hijabi - would she be required to appear in certain cultures without a head-cover in order to indicate she is being respectful of that culture?
 
4. Would you please explain what you mean by tolerating intolerance. I live in a non-muslim society and have non-muslim friends. I follow my religion and respectfully excuse myself out of certain norms/practices which would entail going against my religion. Im not sure how far this might offend others.
 
Want to know, do non-muslims really find it offensive if a muslim refuses to drink or dine with them due to their religion?
 
'Allah hates us. Devout Muslims hate us and we say, oh, that's their culture and we have to respect different cultures.'
 
Its really sad that you feel this way. And worse if you've picked this impression from muslims who you thought were devout.
 
What would you expect from muslims in order to bridge the gap and make our society more respectful and tolerant for all?
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2012 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

If I'm not mistaken the majority of Muslims in Germany are Turks and I wouldn't say they are progressive but I would call them 'Westernised Muslims'.
The verse I gave you is from the Holy Qur'an and not a hadith of the Prophet pbuh). God is telling all women who believe and fear Him to cover up. You can have your views however distorted they may be.


Yes, you are correct. About 2.5 million are of Turkish origin. Some have chosen to become German citizens. You will find the full range of how seriously they take Islam. There are Muslims in name only. There are cultural Muslims who don't pray and don't go to the mosque yet keep elements of the culture and celebrate Islamic holidays. I know more about Islam than they do. Then there are liberal or progressive Muslims who know a good deal about Islam and who are smart enough to be able to understand the Quran and Sunnah with their proper historical context. Most of them are secular Muslims like about half of the population in Turkey. They respect laws made by elected representatives. They reject Islamic jurisprudence. The fourth group are conservative Muslims, who really believe that Islam is superior to other religions. They read the Quran a lot and often create a lot of trouble. Many boys are raised to become machos. Some don't respect female teachers. They threaten their sisters when they choose to have a German boyfriend etc. Some of these machos also consider German girls to be unclean and sluts. Often they are very arrogant and lazy and do poorly in school. The fifth group are the ultra conservatives and they think Islam is the greatest thing on Earth and everything else has little relevance. They despise the West, but appreciate the knowledge of German medicine. Funny. They always prefer German hospitals over Turkish hospitals or Arab hospitals. They disagree with many German laws, but don't say so openly. They would love to have the Sharia replace German laws. They dream that this might become possible in 30 years. The sixth group are the non-militant fundamentalists. They embrace Salafism and Wahhabism and other extreme forms of Islam. Their whole life revolves around the Quran and the Sunnah and they would like to create a world like it was in the 7th century. They even prefer roots over toothbrushes. The seventh group, which is a small group, are the militant fundamentalists. They hurt or kill people. Some attend schools in Egypt or Saudi Arabia and training camps in Pakistan and then come back to Germany.

So when you talk about the Turks in Germany keep in mind that this is not a homogenous group.

Whether God is telling all women who believe and fear Him to cover up is a controversial issue. It's all about interpretation. Why would God not tell men who believe and fear Him to cover up? That's illogical.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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