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Message Icon Topic: Hijab - Freedom NOT Oppression : Opinion Post Reply Post New Topic
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Blake
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 12:32am
I think that's a point well taken Matt. I really don't have any problem with women wearing the hijab, or the burqua, ... as long as they are not afraid
to take it off at their discretion.

I mean, you are right ... it should NOT be a way to silence or diminish women in society.

I will say after spending the last month in Kenya, and a good portion of that in Mombassa where the Muslim population is very large. I found it quite interesting to see the various "levels of cover" all the way from a simple head scarf to full burquas.... but I noticed even the full Burqua women often wore
make up .... and some of those burquas were pretty stylish as well. And I'm
not joking.

I think to tell you the truth, those women seemed just as feminine as any other. It's hard to explain unless you spend some time around them I guess. Even when I was swimming in the Indian Ocean there were a few women in Full dress clinging to an innertube with their boyfriends.. ( quite an interesting sight)

The impression I got was that for the most part ... most of these people from the sub- saharan africans to the Indians and various muslims all seemed to get along no matter how they were dressed... everything seemed to flow fine...  ( except none of them could stand me !.. lol)

To bad it just cant be that way everywhere.


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Blake
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 12:56am
Of course everything there is not exactly rosy ... with the actions of the El Shabab group now .. they search you everywhere with the metal detectors now.... 

Anyway ...  I have African friends in the Mombassa area who are not Muslim.. and to tell you the truth , a lot of those women as well like to wear burquas
as well at certain times even though they are not Muslim.... and its not because they are pressured in any way. But rather because the anonymity can create a bit of safety in that people will not always know when she is coming or going from her compound. In some of these countries there is a level of lawlessness and the police protection is not quite what we have here in the west. I think in many cases ... after having been there it can be a valuable tool for them. ...........  although i can only speak of my own impressions and I suppose that's all it is.

BTW.....  the last day I was there they did have some riots and a few Christian churches were set on fire....  so to tell you the truth its not all comming up roses there... 
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Quote lady Replybullet Posted: 14 September 2012 at 1:13am

Hello Blake.  I lived in vinpingo, kenya from 2001-2003.  That city is twenty minutes away from mombasa.  I also have some of my best friends still living there. Anyway, I frequent mombasa at least three times a week.  I also wore the burqa as well there for that lenght of time.  Anyway, I dont understand why those nonmuslims would wear the niqaab?  I know when I was there and the nonmuslims were wearing the niqaab it was being they were pro......tutes. Sorry. but maybe things have changed.  Or maybe they were afraid of being viewed as a pro....t..e. because they were hanging around caucasians.  Anyway, yes alot of peace corps volunteers in kenya were labeling the niqaabi women as very feminine women.  To be honest with you they were saying that they were so beautiful. These were coming from chrisitian american men.

The christians and muslims kenyans  respected each other so much. They lived peacefully with each other for many years.  I did see a changed of how muslims and christians  kenyans viewed each other after 9/11 happened.
But I think that it is interesting of how people are so insecure with themselves  that they believe that one thing is oppressive with a group of people and purposely ignore that fact that thing could be liberating to the next person such as wearing the niqaab.
I have to remind myself sometimes that what judgement I put on others will come back to me.  If I do not accept someone for anything that does not cause harm to society or if I want to oppress someone with my my ideas  then i am aware that the person who gets hurt the most is me.  What you put in this world is what you get back, even if your ideas are not openly spoken.
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 14 September 2012 at 1:56am
Interesting post Lady.... well, you certainly spent much more time there than I did so you obviously got to know things a little better than I did.
  I stayed in Likoni .... not far after you take the ferry across the channel from the main city.

I thought it a little funny myself that they would wear the burqua ... but my friend said she does sometimes when she feels like it and so do others she knows.  They are Luuya tribe (sorry not spelled right) .... I guess to them they simply see it as another type of clothing and no big deal.
I rather like that outlook myself.

I think they were probably doing it more though right after 2008 when they had the post election violence. it got sort of bad right around their place at that time. I remember they had to barricade themselves inside as well.

But really though...after a short while seeing women in that type of dress seemed normal to me ....  and to tell you the truth ... you really notice womens eyes a lot more..... I mean as far as the expressions ..... so that sort of makes up for the rest of the body being covered up ...lol        I had no idea about the pro..t...ute  thing.   Really for the most part I do see very much respect between Muslims and Christians there. I really like Mombassa very much and hope they can continue to have that peace.




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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 20 September 2012 at 6:28am
Blake, how can you see makeup hidden by a burqa? Or do you mean niqab and eye shadow?

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Blake Replybullet Posted: 20 September 2012 at 9:46am
Sorry... I guess I confused the two Niquab and Burqua...  
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 09 October 2012 at 6:32am
The Hijab is a symbol of sex segregation. That is its main purpose. It is not about modesty. If it were, men would have to wear it as well.
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 09 October 2012 at 8:26am
Originally posted by Matt Browne

The Hijab is a symbol of sex segregation. That is its main purpose. It is not about modesty. If it were, men would have to wear it as well.



People like you make me laugh who thinks they know everything. What do you say to the following verse from the Holy Qur'an and I will highlight the bit where Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala tells all believing women to cover up.

Sahih International

And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof
and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.
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