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Message Icon Topic: Hijab - Freedom NOT Oppression : Opinion Post Reply Post New Topic
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lady
 
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Quote lady Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2012 at 7:48am
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[/QUOTE]
 
I can understand a comment like this from a white European, racist comments are not that rare in the West. Europe and America are now multi-cultural places and as such some members of society are denied their freedom and their freedom of expression. Yes of course the majority in these countries are white Anglo-Saxon christians but they also need to be tolerant of other cultures and religions.
 
Women were told to dress modestly in ALL three books from God yet people like to implement rules that they like and not what God wants.
[/QUOTE]
 
 
I agree with Abu Loren.
Nothing, there are many ways to get to know a person's personality without seeing their faces.  I used to wear the veil, and when I wore it so many people were able to recognize me and they were able to know my personality without having any problems. 
 
I do think that women who who do not dress modest do it because they want attention from men.  If I tell anyone that I have earrings on under my hijab or if a nonmuslim women see my hair at MY HOUSE then she will ALWAYS say, "why you have.....hair or wear earrings since you can not show it to people."  Wallahi. I always smile because this reassure me that they are mainly naked because they like to show their body to men (and maybe to women too).Smile
It is almost like when they meet someone confident with niqaabi or hijaabi, they are thinking "wow, you seem to be different than what I expected or how dare you be confident with that thing on your head or your face, or etc..."  And of course, we have many nonmuslim admirers as well....Smile
Muslim women are so eloquent with the hijabi and niqaabi. And the nonmuslims know this too.Wink
 Do I think that women without the niqaabi are not eloquent? 
NO, but of course I can not say this is true about the women who do not dress modest.
I think that when a nonmodest dressing woman and man see women who dress modest, or cover their hair or face, then it is like they are reminded by us of what they should not be wearing, and doing in general. 
  I really think that  is why you hear comments made against hijabis and niqaabis from people like Matt Browne and from Caringheart. 
Wink
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2012 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by lady

[
  I really think that  is why you hear comments made against hijabis and niqaabis from people like Matt Browne and from Caringheart. 
Wink


Did a make a comment against hijabis and niqaabis?

I don't believe I did.  Indeed when I see women wearing the veil (not the one that covers the whole face) I am reminded of the blessed mother of Jesus and the beauty of purity and innocence.  Indeed the women(the nuns) of the Catholic church still cover this way.

I agree with modesty.  I thought that was what I said.
I agree with Abu Loren, except about the racist comment.
Like I said, Is it racist to make me wear a veil in an Islamic country, or is it just abiding according to their culture.
I actually think it is lovely to see the women who wear head coverings.  I miss the days when Christian women used to wear head coverings to go to church.  I just know that I could not stand to have to cover my head every time I went out in public, especially in the heat, and I would hate it if something bad could happen to me because I did not cover my head or I happened to allow a bit of hair to show.  Is this what God created?  Didn't God create Adam and Eve, naked in the garden?  Did God make women beautiful so that it must be hidden?  I do not agree that women should cover their face.  That to me is dehumanizing... making them as if non-existent in the world.

I agree it is not good to cause lust.  That is something I believe God does not want.   We must be considerate of our brothers.   Indeed I am instructed;
'Do not do that which would cause offense to a brother, or that which might cause a brother to stumble.'
One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, ... eats only vegetables.   3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt  the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant?  To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat[or do]*, you are no longer acting in love.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification.  20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food.  All food is clean,  but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.   21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves.


23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's well-being.
(from the Christian Bible) *I added [or do]

A good deal of what is wrong in the world might be improved by the behavior of women, but a good deal must be improved by the men. 
After all, the start of immodesty began with the lure of the prostitute, did it not?  When men are 'drawn away by their lust'?  Women are now competing with the behavior of the prostitute in order to draw a man.
Or did it start when the men began to travel the world and landed on beaches, and in far away places, where the women were unclothed(as in Africa), or scantily clothed because of the warm climates(as in the island places?  Where others dressed according to their culture.

I'm afraid that change has to come from the minds of the men and what they allow their minds to focus on.
Still, we women could help those men who want to be men of God, by dressing appropriately and by being women of virtue.

But a man must first desire a woman of virtue.


Edited by Caringheart - 26 July 2012 at 12:30pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2012 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren


I've lived in the UK for nearly forty years and experienced all forms of racism from an early age so I know what I'm talking about. Europe is slowly gathering pace in the racist stakes by banning the hijab, niqab etc and it will only be a matter of time until the Muslims are treated like the Jews were by the Nazis in the 1930's.
 
People of God will always be oppressed and persecuted, this is a sign for the believers to be strong in their faith and it is a test to see who will persevere to the end.
 
As for your other point, I can understand your point. I personally prefer women who cover up. I am in the UK currently and I as soon as I landed the first thing I noticed was that the majority of the women walking around half naked. Most are proud to wear almost nothing and it is like they are proud of this fact and mentally telling men 'look at me are'nt I gorgeous?'.


Greetings Abu Loren,

I don't doubt that racism exists... always has, but I don't think not wanting women all covered up so that you can not recognize who is under there... could easily be a man hiding... I do not think this is due to racism, but practicality.

Personally I can't imagine a thing like what happened to the Jews at the hand of the Nazi's ever happening again to anyone... I pray that we could never return to such a time of barbarism, to such inhumanity towards anyone... but then barbarism existed in Roman times and we thought we had risen above it and become civilized, and along comes Hitler... evil does exist in the world.  I just hope that people are educated and informed enough to never be misled by such a leader again. Confused
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Quote Nausheen Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2012 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by lady

 
 
  If I tell anyone that I have earrings on under my hijab or if a nonmuslim women see my hair at MY HOUSE then she will ALWAYS say, "why you have.....hair or wear earrings since you can not show it to people."  Wallahi. I always smile because this reassure me that they are mainly naked because they like to show their body to men (and maybe to women too).Smile 
 
Dear Lady, Assalamualaikum wa rahamtullah.
And, Ramadan Kareem to you and yours!
 
This reminds me of so many, many experiences with the hijab.
The most common of those is ...in summer  Japanese women carry some sort of fan with them - and say 'atsui! atsui', which means 'its hot!' I m not sure why they address me about the weather coz they usually dont talk to strangers. Gesturing with their fans saying atsui, atsui, when Im in a hijab, as if they are telling me 'whats wrong with you woman! aren't you feeling hot?
 
Have started to practice not taking off my hijab even at home when there are visitors (non-muslim females), because I read somewhere that the list of non-mehram includes non-beleiving women as well.  Allah knows best.
 
btw, about the vit D comment by Matt Brown - thanks to the drug companies who are always in competition with each other, these days most of the Calcium supplements include Vit D3 in them Tongue
 


Edited by Nausheen - 26 July 2012 at 8:09pm
Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2012 at 3:53am
Vitamin D pills with the proper dosage are expensive. Millions of the fully cloaked women can't afford to buy them. Sunshine is for free. All that is needed is getting rid of full hijabs.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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lady
 
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Quote lady Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2012 at 4:09am

One hour of sunshine is enough for vitamin D.  Sitting near a window where the sun comes through is another way of getting enough of sun.   Drinking almond milk can also help.

yes, Nausheen, I heard that it is not good to show nonmuslims your beauty as well. When I heard this, it was more to the fact that they may accidently reveal it loosely to others,since keeping this a secret is not one of their highest priority.
I usually do not unreveal myself to anyone unless I really know the person well, even if you are a muslim this still applies. But thanks for the reminder.Smile
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 29 July 2012 at 8:37am
Sometimes I am quite shocked about the lack of education that's showing in some of the posts. Why do people seem to have trouble memorizing the definition of a term like racism? As if the decision for a face veil is a criterion for race. One can't even see the skin color. How can this then be racism? Muslims expect respect for their culture without being willing to respect non-Muslim cultures. This won't work. Muslims should not kid themselves. They should not underestimate Western resolve.

Sitting near a window to get vitamin D? UVB radiation does not penetrate glass. Checking scientific facts is a good idea before making recommendations that affect human health.




Edited by Matt Browne - 29 July 2012 at 8:38am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 29 July 2012 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne


Sitting near a window to get vitamin D? UVB radiation does not penetrate glass.


Thanks Matt for answering a question that I've had.  I had wondered if I could get my vitamin D when I am sitting in the sunshine by a window.  I need to get 10 minutes a day for my health.
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