IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Islam, is it a culture or a religion?

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 05 December 2012 at 9:18am

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Originally posted by Caringheart

The quran and hadith differ on punishment for adultery, which I do not understand. If the qur'an was the word of God(Allah) shouldn't the hadith agree with the quran?

Maybe Abu Loren or Hasan can comment on this. Not all hadiths are considered authentic (sahih) or good (hasan). Some are seen as weak (daif). This might explain the contradiction.

No we can't comment on wild unfounded accusations. Provide proof from the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths which are contradictory and we will comment Insha'Allah. Otherwise it's pointless. You people can claim what you like (as you have been claiming on this forum).

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honeto

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Posted: 06 December 2012 at 1:35pm

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Originally posted by honeto

Matt, you are right in Islam, the Quran does not teach honor killing. It must be a cultural thing, not just limited to the Arabs either.

I totally agree. A good example is Sicily in Italy. Plenty of honor killings there.

Originally posted by honeto

In religious teaching it is surprising that only the Judeo-Christian teaching command honor killings. In the Bible we read: Leviticus 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Hasan

Yes, and this is why two things are so important1) We need to understand the historical context of when this was written2) We need to make sure that religions have the capability to evolveIn Qur'an 4:24 we read:"Also forbidden are women already married, except slave girls (those whom your right hands possess). Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek them from your property, desiring chastity, not fornication. So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due, but if you agree mutually after the requirement has been determined, there is no sin on you."Like Christianity, the understanding of Islam has evolved and I can't think of an Islamic scholar who promotes slavery. In the 7th century slavery was part of the culture, but it is no longer in the 21st century. Slavery is wrong. For the same reason, the death penalty for adulterers is wrong. Leviticus 20:10 isn't applied anymore.Btw, I'm a secular German Protestant.

Matt,
religion is not a human that evolves LOL! so to speak.
What is declared lawful (halal)by God no one can change it to be unlawful (haram). Same way if something is declared unlawful (Haram) with time or area it can never become lawful (Halal), at least that is the case in Islam.
So I do not know how evolution plays that well as you try it to?
If you saying it was OK and lawful what the Catholic Church and Popes did during inquisition period that lasted many centuries, as part of evolution of Catholicism?
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 10 December 2012 at 2:29pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Abu Loren
Male Islam
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Joined: 29 June 2012
Location: United Arab Emirates
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Posts: 568

Posted: 07 December 2012 at 4:44am

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Originally posted by honeto

Matt, you are right in Islam, the Quran does not teach honor killing. It must be a cultural thing, not just limited to the Arabs either.

I totally agree. A good example is Sicily in Italy. Plenty of honor killings there.

Matt,
religion is not a human that evolves LOL! so to speak.
What is declared lawful (halal)by God no one can change it to be unlawful (haram). Same way if something is declared unlawful (Haram) with time or area it can never become lawful (Halal), at least that is the case in Islam.
So I do not know how evolution plays that well as you try it to?
I you saying it was OK and lawful what the Catholic Church and Popes did inquisition period that lasted many centuries. Was that part of evolution of Catholicism?
Hasan

Indeed Matthias Breun would like to 'modernise' Islam like how they have 'modernised' Christianity. What they fail to understand is that what was revealed in the 7th century is relevant today. Similarly what was revealed to Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) is relevant today. What Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala reveals to mankind is for all time not just for the century it was revealed in. His words will never change, only men try to change it.

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Topic: Islam, is it a culture or a religion?
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Author	Message
Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 05 December 2012 at 9:18am
	*Originally posted by Matt Browne* *Originally posted by Caringheart* The quran and hadith differ on punishment for adultery, which I do not understand. If the qur'an was the word of God(Allah) shouldn't the hadith agree with the quran? Maybe Abu Loren or Hasan can comment on this. Not all hadiths are considered authentic (sahih) or good (hasan). Some are seen as weak (daif). This might explain the contradiction. No we can't comment on wild unfounded accusations. Provide proof from the Holy Qur'an and the Hadiths which are contradictory and we will comment Insha'Allah. Otherwise it's pointless. You people can claim what you like (as you have been claiming on this forum).
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 06 December 2012 at 1:35pm
	*Originally posted by Matt Browne* *Originally posted by honeto* Matt, you are right in Islam, the Quran does not teach honor killing. It must be a cultural thing, not just limited to the Arabs either. I totally agree. A good example is Sicily in Italy. Plenty of honor killings there. *Originally posted by honeto* In religious teaching it is surprising that only the Judeo-Christian teaching command honor killings. In the Bible we read: Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Hasan Yes, and this is why two things are so important1) We need to understand the historical context of when this was written2) We need to make sure that religions have the capability to evolveIn Qur'an 4:24 we read:"Also forbidden are women already married, except slave girls (those whom your right hands possess). Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek them from your property, desiring chastity, not fornication. So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due, but if you agree mutually after the requirement has been determined, there is no sin on you."Like Christianity, the understanding of Islam has evolved and I can't think of an Islamic scholar who promotes slavery. In the 7th century slavery was part of the culture, but it is no longer in the 21st century. Slavery is wrong. For the same reason, the death penalty for adulterers is wrong. Leviticus 20:10 isn't applied anymore.Btw, I'm a secular German Protestant. Matt, religion is not a human that evolves LOL! so to speak. What is declared lawful (halal)by God no one can change it to be unlawful (haram). Same way if something is declared unlawful (Haram) with time or area it can never become lawful (Halal), at least that is the case in Islam. So I do not know how evolution plays that well as you try it to? If you saying it was OK and lawful what the Catholic Church and Popes did during inquisition period that lasted many centuries, as part of evolution of Catholicism? Hasan Edited by honeto - 10 December 2012 at 2:29pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 07 December 2012 at 4:44am
	*Originally posted by honeto* *Originally posted by Matt Browne* *Originally posted by honeto* Matt, you are right in Islam, the Quran does not teach honor killing. It must be a cultural thing, not just limited to the Arabs either. I totally agree. A good example is Sicily in Italy. Plenty of honor killings there. *Originally posted by honeto* In religious teaching it is surprising that only the Judeo-Christian teaching command honor killings. In the Bible we read: Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Hasan Yes, and this is why two things are so important1) We need to understand the historical context of when this was written2) We need to make sure that religions have the capability to evolveIn Qur'an 4:24 we read:"Also forbidden are women already married, except slave girls (those whom your right hands possess). Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek them from your property, desiring chastity, not fornication. So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due, but if you agree mutually after the requirement has been determined, there is no sin on you."Like Christianity, the understanding of Islam has evolved and I can't think of an Islamic scholar who promotes slavery. In the 7th century slavery was part of the culture, but it is no longer in the 21st century. Slavery is wrong. For the same reason, the death penalty for adulterers is wrong. Leviticus 20:10 isn't applied anymore.Btw, I'm a secular German Protestant. Matt, religion is not a human that evolves LOL! so to speak. What is declared lawful (halal)by God no one can change it to be unlawful (haram). Same way if something is declared unlawful (Haram) with time or area it can never become lawful (Halal), at least that is the case in Islam. So I do not know how evolution plays that well as you try it to? I you saying it was OK and lawful what the Catholic Church and Popes did inquisition period that lasted many centuries. Was that part of evolution of Catholicism? Hasan Indeed Matthias Breun would like to 'modernise' Islam like how they have 'modernised' Christianity. What they fail to understand is that what was revealed in the 7th century is relevant today. Similarly what was revealed to Prophet Musa (Alayhi Salaam) is relevant today. What Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala reveals to mankind is for all time not just for the century it was revealed in. His words will never change, only men try to change it.
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