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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Islam, is it a culture or a religion? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2012 at 8:22pm
I have a question, for lack of a better place to post it...
Abu Loren and Hasan have both mentioned the five pillars and prayer... prayer 5 times a day for Muslims.
Now I was thinking earlier...
Is it realistic for a person who has to go to work to earn a living to be able to stop what he is doing 5 times a day for prayer?
I pray often throughout the day because it is what I feel I am called to do...
much as the monks, priests, nuns and other church clergy... there are still specific people in the church who belong to orders who are called to pray several times a day... I even think it is 5 times.
I think this makes sense for those called into service for the Lord, or for those not bound and with free time, but does it make sense for those who have families to provide for and give their time to?
Certainly it is not possible for most to go to a Mosque for this prayer time... not 5 times in a day... not if they are to eat and work, and have time for meaningful contact with their families.
I could see where this would hinder getting enough done in a day to enable civilizations to move forward.
I can see that it is possible to put too much emphasis on worldly things, pushing God to the side, and that is not acceptable, but isn't it necessary to find a balance so that we are not left struggling for the basic necessities of life?
Just wondering how many can, and do, actually fit in prayer, stopping what they are doing, 5 times a day... those without work?

I pray all through the day but I do it while I am busy at other things.  Is this acceptable also for the Muslim?

And I take a 20 minute prayer time every day at 4:00... but I do miss sometimes... then I do prayer at 9:00 pm, or 2:00 am.  But that's because I can.  I have no outside obligations.  I set my own schedule.  How many have this leisure?


Edited by Caringheart - 05 October 2012 at 8:38pm
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2012 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren


Surah 2 is a very long surah which verse are you talking about?


Greetings Abu Loren,
"I wonder if when you read your Quran you thought about Surah 2 where it said the Jews killed a man and God brought him back to life? --- Whether you thought of that in relation to Jesus?"
These are the words of someone else that I was sharing, but I have looked up the surah.  I was in the middle of reading surah 2 anyway.  It has taken me some time because yes, it is very long.  Hard to imagine all that could have been memorized in one sitting. 
It looks to me like they must be referring to verse 2:259

Salaam,
Caringheart
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 06 October 2012 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by honeto

Caringheart,
You just don't read as much then. Islamic belief is that what you just said above. We all sin, and we sin knowingly and unknowingly. For that we are required to know our deen, our belief so we do not do sins unknowingly thus avoiding and resisting them once we learn that they are sins. When we knowingly disobey God, we deny Judgement and the Hereafter. When we make a mistake or sin, seriously repent to not to repeat it again and pay punishment according to the law and amend our behavior afterward and seek Allah's forgiveness, we will find Allah Forgiving and Merciful according to the Quran. For those who stay consistent in their observance of limits set by Allah, Allah will forgive them their mistakes and they will enter Paradise, the eternal salvation.
We do not believe that someone can pay for your sins as a ransom with blood or gold or anything. If Allah forgives and grants salvation, none can stop it!
Hasan


Greetings Hasan,

So many of the Muslims I have spoken with seem to think it is their duty, and within their human ability, to be sinless.  They seem to present that if they are Muslim they are sinless.  So hearing you acknowledge the sinfulness of man took me by surprise.  It just goes to show how individual we all are.  You have shown me a uniqueness of yourself. Smile

Salaam,
Caringheart
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2012 at 3:20am
Originally posted by Caringheart



I have a question, for lack of a better place to post it...Abu Loren and Hasan have both mentioned the five pillars and prayer... prayer 5 times a day for Muslims.Now I was thinking earlier...Is it realistic for a person who has to go to work to earn a living to be able to stop what he is doing 5 times a day for prayer?



Caringheart, simply put a Muslim who does not pray at the stipulated times of the day is out of the fold of Islam. If for various reasons one is unable to pray at the stipulated then that person can make up the prayer as soon as is able to do so.

All Muslims are supposed to pray at their place of business including offices, shops etc.

In Islam there is no excuse for Muslims to not to pray. Allah Subhana Wa T'ala has given us so many concessions that one is even able to pray lying down paralysed.

By the way, where I live in the UAE almost all government buildings and commercial offices provide a prayer room.

Oh I nearly forgot, also there is a masjid like every 10 yards so one is not too far from a place of prayer :)

Edited by Abu Loren - 07 October 2012 at 5:16am
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 07 October 2012 at 3:22am
Originally posted by Caringheart


Originally posted by Abu Loren

Surah 2 is a very long surah which verse are you talking about?
Greetings Abu Loren,
"I wonder if when you read your Quran you thought about Surah 2 where it said the Jews killed a man and God brought him back to life? --- Whether you thought of that in relation to Jesus?"
These are the words of someone else that I was sharing, but I have looked up the surah. I was in the middle of reading surah 2 anyway. It has taken me some time because yes, it is very long. Hard to imagine all that could have been memorized in one sitting. It looks to me like they must be referring to verse 2:259Salaam,Caringheart


No, it has no resemblance to the life of Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) did not die. Taken on it's own, it's just simply a sign from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala to an unbeliever.
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Quote Idil Replybullet Posted: 09 October 2012 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

I have a question, for lack of a better place to post it...
Abu Loren and Hasan have both mentioned the five pillars and prayer... prayer 5 times a day for Muslims.
Now I was thinking earlier...
Is it realistic for a person who has to go to work to earn a living to be able to stop what he is doing 5 times a day for prayer?
I pray often throughout the day because it is what I feel I am called to do...
much as the monks, priests, nuns and other church clergy... there are still specific people in the church who belong to orders who are called to pray several times a day... I even think it is 5 times.
I think this makes sense for those called into service for the Lord, or for those not bound and with free time, but does it make sense for those who have families to provide for and give their time to?
Certainly it is not possible for most to go to a Mosque for this prayer time... not 5 times in a day... not if they are to eat and work, and have time for meaningful contact with their families.
I could see where this would hinder getting enough done in a day to enable civilizations to move forward.
I can see that it is possible to put too much emphasis on worldly things, pushing God to the side, and that is not acceptable, but isn't it necessary to find a balance so that we are not left struggling for the basic necessities of life?
Just wondering how many can, and do, actually fit in prayer, stopping what they are doing, 5 times a day... those without work?

I pray all through the day but I do it while I am busy at other things.  Is this acceptable also for the Muslim?

And I take a 20 minute prayer time every day at 4:00... but I do miss sometimes... then I do prayer at 9:00 pm, or 2:00 am.  But that's because I can.  I have no outside obligations.  I set my own schedule.  How many have this leisure?


As muslims we are ordered by God to pray five times a day at a specific times and as muslims we have to obey this order as it is for own benefit. If you think about it, God has bestowed upon us many blessings and has made disposal to us 24 hours a day.  Considering all this blessing surely we can devote about half  hour a day to our prayers. Also within the prayers there are many benefits to us. Especially it takes away worldly worries and mental illnesses.


Edited by Idil - 09 October 2012 at 2:59pm
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



I have a question, for lack of a better place to post it...Abu Loren and Hasan have both mentioned the five pillars and prayer... prayer 5 times a day for Muslims.Now I was thinking earlier...Is it realistic for a person who has to go to work to earn a living to be able to stop what he is doing 5 times a day for prayer?I pray often throughout the day because it is what I feel I am called to do...much as the monks, priests, nuns and other church clergy... there are still specific people in the church who belong to orders who are called to pray several times a day... I even think it is 5 times. I think this makes sense for those called into service for the Lord, or for those not bound and with free time, but does it make sense for those who have families to provide for and give their time to?Certainly it is not possible for most to go to a Mosque for this prayer time... not 5 times in a day... not if they are to eat and work, and have time for meaningful contact with their families.I could see where this would hinder getting enough done in a day to enable civilizations to move forward.I can see that it is possible to put too much emphasis on worldly things, pushing God to the side, and that is not acceptable, but isn't it necessary to find a balance so that we are not left struggling for the basic necessities of life?Just wondering how many can, and do, actually fit in prayer, stopping what they are doing, 5 times a day... those without work?I pray all through the day but I do it while I am busy at other things. Is this acceptable also for the Muslim?And I take a 20 minute prayer time every day at 4:00... but I do miss sometimes... then I do prayer at 9:00 pm, or 2:00 am. But that's because I can. I have no outside obligations. I set my own schedule. How many have this leisure?





Caringheart,
first I would like to distinguish for you prayer from Muslim Salath that is done five times a day. Salath consists of prayer and more. It includes purification of body and mind, it include worship, meditation, disconnecting from the worldly and connecting to the divine, recitation of part of scripture, asking God's help and guidance for self and others, and much much more.

In Islam every individual has the same responsibilities toward fulfillment of obligations including the five daily salath. Man and woman, rich and poor, priest and seeker, white or black, a farm worker and a surgeon, on and on all under same obligations including five daily Salath to what you call "prayers".

Salath is a reminder and our connection to God. It creates a balance between our priorities. And the way they are spread throughout the day is to make sure we have a chance to remind ourselves of our maker often, so not be lost.
Like a champion who practices as his/her couch plans, a Muslims can champion his faith in practice through Salath.
In today's busy life styles pretty much all across the globe, it makes it very challenging for believer of any faith to practice, for Muslims in particular because there is no modification or change allowed the way they practice their belief or offer their Salath or prayer.
i can give my own example, it has been about twenty years that I became a practicing Muslim and that happened after I came to live here in the US.
I would say there were times it was difficult to perform all Salaths on time. There were times I would do my Salaths after coming home in the evening, sometimes offering three salaths together. Later I realized, I did not make enough effort to offer them on time. I start to care less what others think of it. If I was working, I start offering them during breaks, in hallways, on roadside, in the car, in break rooms, and so on. Offering my Salath on time made me feel better as that's what I was supposed to do. The midday Salath (Zuhr) usually falls during lunch break time, and it made me feel good to connect and remember my maker to offer my worship to Him.
That's the perfect balance, and since there is not such thing as a priest in Islam, so non is above, none has excuse to over or under doing it. All humans are equal in the sight of our maker, if any has a degree higher than the other in His sight is due to the level of our piety.

Like I said prayer is different then Salath, like you and I may pray to God and remember Him all day long. Salath is different for it requires a bit more of your serious desire.
First, on a cold day to wash and do abulution can be of some serious test of desire and faith. If we can get up 6 in the morning on a cold morning to take a shower to go to work (for a worldly duty and gain, even that is a prayer in Islam by the way) even if it is difficult for us to do. We are talking about our duty to God, we have to show the degree of seriousness accordingly at least!
Then to take time to go away from the noise and busyness of the day to focus on the worship without distractions in order to offer prayer, worship and connect to our maker.

It (Salath) has to do with seriousness of one's commitment to His belief for that Allah has said that it is Salth that distinguishes a true believer.
I have been offering Salath for over 20 years now, it is my connection to God. It makes me also happy to feel each time that I am fulfilling an obligation I am told to do. In particular when I put my forehead in front of my Creator and repeat " All Praise is to You Lord, Most High" while understanding my weak and dependent position in front of His, The All capable. This alone is very strong and satisfying to a believing heart.
Allah has set times for our Salaths and asked us to offer them at those times for a purpose. God knows better than us even though sometimes we think we know enough to amend and change what God has told us to do. Thing is those who are looking for excuses will find them one way or the other, but they only make stronger evidence and case against themselves. For those who believe, God's command is enough to guide them to do good.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 09 October 2012 at 3:17pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 30 November 2012 at 6:56am
Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Hasan, so you agree that the Sharia is optional?



Matt,
no I did not say that.
Hasan


So the Sharia is mandatory? Chopping of hands in mandatory? Stoning adulterers is mandatory?

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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