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Interfaith Dialogue
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 02 October 2012 at 1:52pm
Thanks TNC,
I found your reply interesting.

Re:  "The religion you are following is manmade, it a set of law creat by man to live by; they took from other religions and add there own idea and made up there own religion..."

I would say this same about Islam.
But I do very much like this:
"... have chosen for you submit to my will as your way of life."

We must discern carefully with guidance of the Holy Spirit, not man... and be sure that we are submitting to the true will of the Creator, and not something else.

Salaam,
Caringheart
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 03 October 2012 at 12:31am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Thanks TNC,
I found your reply interesting.

Re:  "The religion you are following is manmade, it a set of law creat by man to live by; they took from other religions and add there own idea and made up there own religion..."

I would say this same about Islam.
But I do very much like this:
"... have chosen for you submit to my will as your way of life."

We must discern carefully with guidance of the Holy Spirit, not man... and be sure that we are submitting to the true will of the Creator, and not something else.

Salaam,
Caringheart
Peace Caringheart.<>

If we go back to the origin of man, the first man Adam (S) as the scriptures established, we would recognize that he was order by God Almighty to “submit to His will” in order to received help and guidance; thus, he believed in “submitting to God’s will” which when translates in to Arabic would be “ISLAM”; so Islam was there from the very beginning of Adam (S). The Qur’an is just the last message to all mankind [The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will)…But if you deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account. (Q.3:19)]. It is God Almighty who chooses the name “ISLAM” for his religion. (This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. Q.5:3)

All prophets believe in the “submission to God’s will (Islam)

“For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).” (Qur.16:36); and ‘We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom’.” (Qur.14:4)

For example Jesus (S) was sent to the Children of Israel:

 “But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”  (Matthew 15:24); These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5-6)

Muhammad (S) on the other hand was sent as a universal Messenger to all mankind, Allah (S) mentioned in Qur’an:

We have not sent thee but as a (universal messenger) to all mankind…but most of mankind knew not”. (Q.34:28)

 

BELIEVE IN THE ONLY ONE TRUE GOD ALLAH

We all came from the first man and woman, Adam and Eve, then a nation, then many nations and tribe. Revelation was sent to mankind since the beginning for guidance and Allah (S) mentioned, those people did not differ among themselves except through selfish contumacy and Allah (S) honored the most righteous among the mankind.

“O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).  (Qur.49:13)

Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the people of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.” (Qur.2:213)

The noble call to people of the book:

Say: "O people of the Book! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will). (Q.3:64)


<>

Jesus (S) in his final message he looks up to the Heaven and gives thanks to God Almighty for affording him to give eternal life to all whom God Almighty has chosen; and that is to believe in the one true God and Jesus the Messiah whom He has sent.

“1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.”(John 17:1-2)

This is what he said:

3And this is life eternal, that they (the disciples or who call themselves Christian) might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou (the only true God) hast sent.” (John 17:1-2); And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Luke 4:8)

That is the declaration of faith at the time of Jesus (S), in other words, is to believe in no other deity except the one true God Allah (S) and Jesus (S) is the messenger of Allah (S) and you will received ETERNAL LIFE. Same declaration Muslims make except that at the end they say, Muhammad (S) is the messenger of Allah (S). That is to say: “I testify that there is no other deity except Allah (S) and I testify that Muhammad (S) is the messenger of Allah (S).”

<>

Those who fallow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mention in their own (Scriptures), In the Taurat {Torah} and the Injeel (Gospel). (Q.7:157).

   Torah: Isaiah29:12 and Gospel: John 16:13 “…for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear” [from angel Gabriel (S)].

And thou (O Muhammad) was not (able) to recite a book before this (book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case indeed, would the talkers of vanity have doubted. (Q.29:48)

Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by one mighty in power. (Q.53:3-5)

 All the truth with the coming of the Qur’an:

“… And We have sent down to you the Book (the Qur'an) as an exposition of everything, a guidance, a mercy, and glad tidings for those who have submitted themselves (to Allâh as Muslims)”. (Qur’an 16:89)

Allah the almighty reminds the people who call themselves Christian of their forgetfulness:

“From those, too, who called themselves Christians We did take a Covenant, But they forgot a good part of the message that was sent down: So We stirred up enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (Q.5:14)

Then He Allah (S) said:

“O People of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that you used to hide in your Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a light [Muhammad (pbuh)] and a perspicuous Book.” (Q.5:15)

…So fear Allah, and obey me [Muhammad (S) and the message he brought]. (Q.3:50)

Verily this Qur’an doith guide to that which is most right. (Q.17:9)

truthnowcome
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 04 October 2012 at 2:53am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Thanks TNC,I found your reply interesting.Re:  "The religion you are following is manmade, it a set of law creat by man to live by; they took from other religions and add there own idea and made up there own religion..."I would say this same about Islam.But I do very much like this:"... have chosen for you submit to my will as your way of life."We must discern carefully with guidance of the Holy Spirit, not man... and be sure that we are submitting to the true will of the Creator, and not something else.Salaam,Caringheart


Caringheart, you as a born again Christian believe that the Holy Spirit in-dwells a believer. So answer this question.

Do you believe that the human body/vessel is pure for a holy being to dwell?
Every single human being on earth is prone to sin, in fact we sin every minute of the day by thinking sinful thoughts.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 04 October 2012 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren


Caringheart, you as a born again Christian believe that the Holy Spirit in-dwells a believer. So answer this question.

Do you believe that the human body/vessel is pure for a holy being to dwell?
Every single human being on earth is prone to sin, in fact we sin every minute of the day by thinking sinful thoughts.


Greetings Abu Loren,

I don't consider myself as a 'born-again' Christian.  I am one who has always belonged to God... though I have sinned.  I am one who believes in Jesus and in is His great sacrifice of Love that binds my heart to God, bringing to me the Holy Spirit to bring me into all guidance.
"Do you believe that the human body/vessel is pure for a holy being to dwell? "
Hmmm(meaning you give me pause to thinkSmile), this is interesting to think about.  I understand your thinking.  It kind of goes with a religious concept I was just reading about the other night, about blood sacrifice and how the body is not pure because of the blood.  I will have to go look it up and re-read.
"Every single human being on earth is prone to sin, in fact we sin every minute of the day by thinking sinful thoughts."
I don't often hear this from a Muslim.  How does a Muslim achieve salvation... escape from sin?

For me when we turn our thoughts to God... when we "renew our minds daily"... when we "put on the whole armour of God"... when we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, our thoughts are guarded from sinful thinking, and since actions follow what we allow ourselves to think on, we guarded from sin.  This was the whole point of Jesus coming... to lead us to God... to receive the Holy Spirit in this life.  I honestly can say that my thoughts are not dominated by sinful thoughts.  Knowing Jesus has led me to live every minute with God at the forefront, examining my thoughts and actions ongoing throughout the day, and immediately repenting and asking for forgiveness... God, because He is part of my every minute of every day, through the Holy Spirit, is quick to convict me of any straying.

From childhood there is a prayer that had great impact on me(the bold part), and has always stayed with me.
"O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins... most of all because they offend Thee my God who art all good and deserving of all my love.  I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to sin no more and to avoid the near occasion of sin."
While I went through a time in my life when my conscience was dulled due to the influences of my culture, I never forgot that God was my ultimate goal, and I did return to Him, and have never left Him since... well, to the best of my ability.  I still have occasion to be 'too slow to listen and too quick to speak'.  I am good at avoiding the 'near occasions of sin' by removing all corrupting influences from my life... the things I watch, the music I listen to, what I read, and not placing myself in those situations that might tempt me to sin.  I say I do all this only by the power of the Love of my God.
_________________________________________

This is what I was reading;

"I wonder how familiar you are with the OT animal sacrifices?
In order to sacrifice to the Lord for a person, or for the sins of the people, they had to bring a pure spotless animal and the priest would kill it, --- then the blood was drained out, --- and the innocent body, drained of blood was what God required, --- and accepted.

--- (I know, it sounds kind of gory to most people, --- but the meat was not wasted but roasted and used by the priests or relatives, or given to the poor.)
In a sense, the killing of pure healthy animals, draining them of blood, and using them for food after the sacrificial offering was ‘Kosher,’
--- But the question was, why did God call for a body without blood, in order for it to be a substitute for someone else’s sin?

If we go to the beginning, God created man from dust, “And breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul (being).” Genesis 2:7

The ‘life support system’ of Adam and Eve was the Holy Spirit of God.
When Adam and Eve sinned, they were no longer pure or holy, --- so the Holy Spirit had to withdraw from them. --- When they were put out of the Garden, their bodies were changed to be like the bodies of animals with a circulatory blood system as their new ‘life support system.’

God had said that if they were disobedient to God’s command, and ate of the forbidden fruit ---they would die. This first referred to Spiritual death, as the Holy Spirit could not remain in an unholy body, --- and then it resulted in physical death as a blood body ages and dies.
And, if you will receive it, --- this is what Jesus meant in John 3 when He said, “You must be Born Again,” --- or born Spiritually, to be restored to a right relationship with God.   
--- So, since Adam was a pure body without blood, --- what God demanded of the Israelites was a pure body without blood, to be an acceptable sacrifice for sin.

--- So, difficult as it may seem, the blood body was the offense to God and it could not approach God on its own merit.
However, the animal had to die because, as the Scripture says, “The life is in the blood,” --- and again it says, “Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.”

I wonder if when you read your Quran you thought about Surah 2 where it said the Jews killed a man and God brought him back to life? --- Whether you thought of that in relation to Jesus?"

[end of quote]

Salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 04 October 2012 at 1:26pm
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truthnowcome
 
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Quote truthnowcome Replybullet Posted: 04 October 2012 at 11:09pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


This is what I was reading;

"I wonder how familiar you are with the OT animal sacrifices?
In order to sacrifice to the Lord for a person, or for the sins of the people, they had to bring a pure spotless animal and the priest would kill it, --- then the blood was drained out, --- and the innocent body, drained of blood was what God required, --- and accepted.

--- (I know, it sounds kind of gory to most people, --- but the meat was not wasted but roasted and used by the priests or relatives, or given to the poor.)
In a sense, the killing of pure healthy animals, draining them of blood, and using them for food after the sacrificial offering was ‘Kosher,’
--- But the question was, why did God call for a body without blood, in order for it to be a substitute for someone else’s sin?

If we go to the beginning, God created man from dust, “And breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul (being).” Genesis 2:7

The ‘life support system’ of Adam and Eve was the Holy Spirit of God.
When Adam and Eve sinned, they were no longer pure or holy, --- so the Holy Spirit had to withdraw from them. --- When they were put out of the Garden, their bodies were changed to be like the bodies of animals with a circulatory blood system as their new ‘life support system.’

God had said that if they were disobedient to God’s command, and ate of the forbidden fruit ---they would die. This first referred to Spiritual death, as the Holy Spirit could not remain in an unholy body, --- and then it resulted in physical death as a blood body ages and dies.
And, if you will receive it, --- this is what Jesus meant in John 3 when He said, “You must be Born Again,” --- or born Spiritually, to be restored to a right relationship with God.   
--- So, since Adam was a pure body without blood, --- what God demanded of the Israelites was a pure body without blood, to be an acceptable sacrifice for sin.

--- So, difficult as it may seem, the blood body was the offense to God and it could not approach God on its own merit.
However, the animal had to die because, as the Scripture says, “The life is in the blood,” --- and again it says, “Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.”

I wonder if when you read your Quran you thought about Surah 2 where it said the Jews killed a man and God brought him back to life? --- Whether you thought of that in relation to Jesus?"

[end of quote]

Salaam,
Caringheart
<>

Peace unto you,

 

Caringheart, your opinion sound good to you; can you show me where it mentioned in the O.T. that they bodies turn flesh.


They were created from DUST.

 

TNC

 

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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2012 at 10:53am
Originally posted by truthnowcome

Originally posted by Caringheart


This is what I was reading;

"I wonder how familiar you are with the OT animal sacrifices?
In order to sacrifice to the Lord for a person, or for the sins of the people, they had to bring a pure spotless animal and the priest would kill it, --- then the blood was drained out, --- and the innocent body, drained of blood was what God required, --- and accepted.

--- (I know, it sounds kind of gory to most people, --- but the meat was not wasted but roasted and used by the priests or relatives, or given to the poor.)
In a sense, the killing of pure healthy animals, draining them of blood, and using them for food after the sacrificial offering was ‘Kosher,’
--- But the question was, why did God call for a body without blood, in order for it to be a substitute for someone else’s sin?

If we go to the beginning, God created man from dust, “And breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul (being).” Genesis 2:7

The ‘life support system’ of Adam and Eve was the Holy Spirit of God.
When Adam and Eve sinned, they were no longer pure or holy, --- so the Holy Spirit had to withdraw from them. --- When they were put out of the Garden, their bodies were changed to be like the bodies of animals with a circulatory blood system as their new ‘life support system.’

God had said that if they were disobedient to God’s command, and ate of the forbidden fruit ---they would die. This first referred to Spiritual death, as the Holy Spirit could not remain in an unholy body, --- and then it resulted in physical death as a blood body ages and dies.
And, if you will receive it, --- this is what Jesus meant in John 3 when He said, “You must be Born Again,” --- or born Spiritually, to be restored to a right relationship with God.   
--- So, since Adam was a pure body without blood, --- what God demanded of the Israelites was a pure body without blood, to be an acceptable sacrifice for sin.

--- So, difficult as it may seem, the blood body was the offense to God and it could not approach God on its own merit.
However, the animal had to die because, as the Scripture says, “The life is in the blood,” --- and again it says, “Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.”

I wonder if when you read your Quran you thought about Surah 2 where it said the Jews killed a man and God brought him back to life? --- Whether you thought of that in relation to Jesus?"

[end of quote]

Salaam,
Caringheart
<>

Peace unto you,

Caringheart, your opinion sound good to you; can you show me where it mentioned in the O.T. that they bodies turn flesh.

They were created from DUST.

TNC

 
Greetings TNC,
 
What I shared is an interpretation of another.  It made sense to me.
The way it made sense to me is this;
Yes, Adam was created from dust... and God breathed life into him with the Holy Spirit.  After Adam's sin the Holy spirit could no longer dwell in him, so he needed another life support system... blood... the blood is the thing that signifies that he is impure... corrupted by sin.  This is what the catholic church calls original sin, and is the reason they baptise babies... to cleanse them from original sin in case they die before receiving the Holy Spirit... but I digress... Smile
 
This is why the early Jews had to practice blood sacrifice as repentance for sin.  This is what I was understanding, and it made sense to me.
 
Is that helpful?  Smile
 
Blessings to you,
CLynn


Edited by Caringheart - 05 October 2012 at 10:56am
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2012 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Caringheart



I don't often hear this from a Muslim.  How does a Muslim achieve salvation... escape from sin?
I wonder if when you read your Quran you thought about Surah 2 where it said the Jews killed a man and God brought him back to life? --- Whether you thought of that in relation to Jesus?"[end of quote]Salaam,Caringheart


A Muslim achieve (achieve is the wrong word) seek salvation just by asking forgiveness from Our Lord. He is the most Merciful. Of course, one must to begin with follow His Laws and what He has stipulated such as prayer, charity, pilgrimage etc the five pillars. He says in the Holy Qur'an that just ask and He will give.

Surah 2 is a very long surah which verse are you talking about?
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 05 October 2012 at 2:40pm
Caringheart,
you wrote:""Every single human being on earth is prone to sin, in fact we sin every minute of the day by thinking sinful thoughts."
I don't often hear this from a Muslim. How does a Muslim achieve salvation... escape from sin?

You just don't read as much then. Islamic belief is that what you just said above. We all sin, and we sin knowingly and unknowingly. For that we are required to know our deen, our belief so we do not do sins unknowingly thus avoiding and resisting them once we learn that they are sins. When we knowingly disobey God, we deny Judgement and the Hereafter. When we make a mistake or sin, seriously repent to not to repeat it again and pay punishment according to the law and amend our behavior afterward and seek Allah's forgiveness, we will find Allah Forgiving and Merciful according to the Quran. For those who stay consistent in their observance of limits set by Allah, Allah will forgive them their mistakes and they will enter Paradise, the eternal salvation.
We do not believe that someone can pay for your sins as a ransom with blood or gold or anything. If Allah forgives and grants salvation, none can stop it!
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 05 October 2012 at 2:45pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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