IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Islam, is it a culture or a religion?

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 23 July 2012 at 2:48am

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Islam is a cultural, religious and political system.

Wrong. In what way is Islam cultural or political?

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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 July 2012 at 7:41pm

Originally posted by abjad

Originally posted by Caringheart

As I am reading tonight I have some thoughts. I don't know how well to express them. (I am not at home on my own computer so not as easy to hold a thought

)

So anyway, just so I don't forget altogether I thought I would at least post the question that is in my mind.

Islam, is it a culture or is it a religion? (or a regime?... I feel I have to ask that too)

The reason this question comes to my mind is because when I think of the people who are joining Islam... I believe it is the culture that attracts them. I believe the Muslim people live in a way that has been missing in the world ever since the 1960's, and the drifting away from strongly held values, that we have seen change and alter the world, and not in good ways. I believe we are seeing the bad fruits of drifting away from those values, while the Muslims, which came later, are still holding to those values. I think we see something in them that we miss in our own society.

But I do not think the religion and the culture are one and the same.

I see a great deal of confusion in the religion, though the culture is attractive.

And though the culture is attractive, because the religion is not clear, it can also be dangerous.

I don't know if that really says what I am trying to express, but I gave it a shot. I may add or change later.

But I would love any feedback.

Deen Islam.

a religion.

In red above, try to twist your mind and think to others parallel to your writings.

Are you taking about ISLAM or Muslims?

Greetings Abjad,

Is not the definition of a Muslim one who follows the religion of Islam?

This is what I am trying to define. Because being a Muslim seems to include a certain cultural way of life which is pleasing in many ways, but not in all the ways that the religion of Islam teaches.
Heart

Edited by Caringheart - 23 July 2012 at 7:44pm

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Caringheart

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Posted: 23 July 2012 at 7:47pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Islam is a cultural, religious and political system.

Wrong. In what way is Islam cultural or political?

Leaders who govern countries according to Sharia (or Islamic law) - political
Those who call themselves Muslim but do not know the religion - cultural

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 23 July 2012 at 11:37pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Matt Browne

Islam is a cultural, religious and political system.

Wrong. In what way is Islam cultural or political?

Leaders who govern countries according to Sharia (or Islamic law) - political
Those who call themselves Muslim but do not know the religion - cultural

As'alaamu Alaikkum

There is not one country in the world or a leader who is ruling by Sharia law. There are seperate Sharia laws in the so called Muslim countries but it is mainly used for family settlements. So basically there are two laws being applied, the state law and Sharia law. This has absolutely nothing to do with religion apart from the fact that the Sharia law is taken from the Holy Qur'an. Sharia law does not rule the country.

I agree with the second part, there are many millions of Muslims who even do not know the basics of Islam. Then there are those who do not implement the five pillars of Islam, they are not Muslims. To put it simply, if a person do not pray five times a day then he has left the fold of Islam. There are also illiterate people who blend culture with religion but this can be said of all of the other faiths, this particularly happens in the Indian sub-continent.

To accuse the religion of Islam and whole of the Muslim community of such things is wrong.

I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk and out of their minds.

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 24 July 2012 at 10:41am

Abu Loren wrote: I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk and out of their minds.

That's a very serious and very interesting claim for you to make. I'm 53 years old, and have attended Christmas Eve services every year of my life except once, and I have never, ever seen a drunk, out of their mind person in church on Christmas Eve.

Just to formalize what you are saying...

You are officially declaring, in the name of Allah the Compassionate, the Merciful, that you personally know "many many many many Christians" who get drunk on Christmas Eve and go to church both drunk and out of their minds. If you are lying in making this declaration and accusation, then you are guilty of blaspheming the name of Allah and you deserve to spend eternity in hell.

Tell me, Abu Loren, just how many Christians are in a "many many many many"? Do you personally know a thousand christians who go to church drunk on Christmas Eve? Ten thousand? A million? Since you claim to "know" these thousands of Christians, I assume you could, if you wished, provide us with a list of their names?

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Caringheart

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Posted: 24 July 2012 at 12:21pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum

... this can be said of all of the other faiths,...

To accuse the religion of Islam and whole of the Muslim community of such things is wrong.

I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk...

I agree with what you have said here. It can be said of all faiths, and I do not accuse the whole of the Muslim community, and did not mean to seem as if I did. I do not accuse anyone. I was just making a statement regarding the make up of the Islamic community. There are those who are there because they are religious and there are those who are there because they like the culture. I think people do not recognize the difference between belonging to the culture and belonging to the religion.

And I agree, those who call themselves Christians but do not live the life prescribed by God are deceiving themselves. They do not belong to God. On judgement day they will be told, "I never knew ye, because ye never knew Me, though you proclaimed My name".

I left off the 'out of their minds' bit because I have to say, when I see Muslims shooting off weapons in the streets in the mid-east, that is 'out of their minds' to me. In countries where the people do not have enough they waste money on ammunition? I did not care to own a weapon because of the cost... ammunition is not cheap, and not what is considered a necessity. I often wonder what might be accomplished, if overseas, they took all that money they pour into owning and firing weapons, into cultivating the land, building machinery and technology, irrigation systems and such. How might life be improved.
Anyway, I digress.

And thanks for sharing as regards sharia law. Still unclear on that one as the state law seems to come from the Qur'anic law, which still makes the religion of Islam political.

Thanks for your reply.
Caringheart

Edited by Caringheart - 24 July 2012 at 12:27pm

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 24 July 2012 at 4:35pm

Originally posted by Reepicheep

Abu Loren wrote: I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk and out of their minds.

Just to formalize what you are saying...

You've probably lived in the same community for those 53 years. I used to be a Christian and I've seen many Christians getting drunk and attending church.

Just being realistic.

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Abu Loren
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Posted: 24 July 2012 at 4:38pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum

... this can be said of all of the other faiths,...

To accuse the religion of Islam and whole of the Muslim community of such things is wrong.

I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk...

Many Islamic states are run by tyrants who suppress the people and they live a life of luxury. The sad thing about that is that these countries are oil rich and the ordinary people should be living a comfortable life, instead most live in squalor.

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Topic: Islam, is it a culture or a religion?
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Author	Message
Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 23 July 2012 at 2:48am
	*Originally posted by Matt Browne* Islam is a cultural, religious and political system. Wrong. In what way is Islam cultural or political?
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 23 July 2012 at 7:41pm
	*Originally posted by abjad* *Originally posted by Caringheart* As I am reading tonight I have some thoughts. I don't know how well to express them. (I am not at home on my own computer so not as easy to hold a thought ) So anyway, just so I don't forget altogether I thought I would at least post the question that is in my mind. Islam, is it a culture or is it a religion? (or a regime?... I feel I have to ask that too) The reason this question comes to my mind is because when I think of the people who are joining Islam... I believe it is the culture that attracts them. I believe the Muslim people live in a way that has been missing in the world ever since the 1960's, and the drifting away from strongly held values, that we have seen change and alter the world, and not in good ways. I believe we are seeing the bad fruits of drifting away from those values, while the Muslims, which came later, are still holding to those values. I think we see something in them that we miss in our own society. But I do not think the religion and the culture are one and the same. I see a great deal of confusion in the religion, though the culture is attractive. And though the culture is attractive, because the religion is not clear, it can also be dangerous. I don't know if that really says what I am trying to express, but I gave it a shot. I may add or change later. But I would love any feedback. Deen Islam. a religion. In red above, try to twist your mind and think to others parallel to your writings. Are you taking about ISLAM or Muslims? Greetings Abjad, Is not the definition of a Muslim one who follows the religion of Islam? This is what I am trying to define. Because being a Muslim seems to include a certain cultural way of life which is pleasing in many ways, but not in all the ways that the religion of Islam teaches. Edited by Caringheart - 23 July 2012 at 7:44pm
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 23 July 2012 at 7:47pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by Matt Browne* Islam is a cultural, religious and political system. Wrong. In what way is Islam cultural or political? Leaders who govern countries according to Sharia (or Islamic law) - political Those who call themselves Muslim but do not know the religion - cultural
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 23 July 2012 at 11:37pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Abu Loren* *Originally posted by Matt Browne* Islam is a cultural, religious and political system. Wrong. In what way is Islam cultural or political? Leaders who govern countries according to Sharia (or Islamic law) - political Those who call themselves Muslim but do not know the religion - cultural As'alaamu Alaikkum There is not one country in the world or a leader who is ruling by Sharia law. There are seperate Sharia laws in the so called Muslim countries but it is mainly used for family settlements. So basically there are two laws being applied, the state law and Sharia law. This has absolutely nothing to do with religion apart from the fact that the Sharia law is taken from the Holy Qur'an. Sharia law does not rule the country. I agree with the second part, there are many millions of Muslims who even do not know the basics of Islam. Then there are those who do not implement the five pillars of Islam, they are not Muslims. To put it simply, if a person do not pray five times a day then he has left the fold of Islam. There are also illiterate people who blend culture with religion but this can be said of all of the other faiths, this particularly happens in the Indian sub-continent. To accuse the religion of Islam and whole of the Muslim community of such things is wrong. I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk and out of their minds.
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 24 July 2012 at 10:41am
	Abu Loren wrote: I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk and out of their minds. That's a very serious and very interesting claim for you to make. I'm 53 years old, and have attended Christmas Eve services every year of my life except once, and I have never, ever seen a drunk, out of their mind person in church on Christmas Eve. Just to formalize what you are saying... You are officially declaring, in the name of Allah the Compassionate, the Merciful, that you personally know "many many many many Christians" who get drunk on Christmas Eve and go to church both drunk and out of their minds. If you are lying in making this declaration and accusation, then you are guilty of blaspheming the name of Allah and you deserve to spend eternity in hell. Tell me, Abu Loren, just how many Christians are in a "many many many many"? Do you personally know a thousand christians who go to church drunk on Christmas Eve? Ten thousand? A million? Since you claim to "know" these thousands of Christians, I assume you could, if you wished, provide us with a list of their names?
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1331	Posted: 24 July 2012 at 12:21pm
	*Originally posted by Abu Loren* As'alaamu Alaikkum ... this can be said of all of the other faiths,... To accuse the religion of Islam and whole of the Muslim community of such things is wrong. I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk... I agree with what you have said here. It can be said of all faiths, and I do not accuse the whole of the Muslim community, and did not mean to seem as if I did. I do not accuse anyone. I was just making a statement regarding the make up of the Islamic community. There are those who are there because they are religious and there are those who are there because they like the culture. I think people do not recognize the difference between belonging to the culture and belonging to the religion. And I agree, those who call themselves Christians but do not live the life prescribed by God are deceiving themselves. They do not belong to God. On judgement day they will be told, "I never knew ye, because ye never knew Me, though you proclaimed My name". I left off the 'out of their minds' bit because I have to say, when I see Muslims shooting off weapons in the streets in the mid-east, that is 'out of their minds' to me. In countries where the people do not have enough they waste money on ammunition? I did not care to own a weapon because of the cost... ammunition is not cheap, and not what is considered a necessity. I often wonder what might be accomplished, if overseas, they took all that money they pour into owning and firing weapons, into cultivating the land, building machinery and technology, irrigation systems and such. How might life be improved. Anyway, I digress. And thanks for sharing as regards sharia law. Still unclear on that one as the state law seems to come from the Qur'anic law, which still makes the religion of Islam political. Thanks for your reply. Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 24 July 2012 at 12:27pm
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 24 July 2012 at 4:35pm
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* Abu Loren wrote: I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk and out of their minds. That's a very serious and very interesting claim for you to make. I'm 53 years old, and have attended Christmas Eve services every year of my life except once, and I have never, ever seen a drunk, out of their mind person in church on Christmas Eve. Just to formalize what you are saying... You are officially declaring, in the name of Allah the Compassionate, the Merciful, that you personally know "many many many many Christians" who get drunk on Christmas Eve and go to church both drunk and out of their minds. If you are lying in making this declaration and accusation, then you are guilty of blaspheming the name of Allah and you deserve to spend eternity in hell. Tell me, Abu Loren, just how many Christians are in a "many many many many"? Do you personally know a thousand christians who go to church drunk on Christmas Eve? Ten thousand? A million? Since you claim to "know" these thousands of Christians, I assume you could, if you wished, provide us with a list of their names? You've probably lived in the same community for those 53 years. I used to be a Christian and I've seen many Christians getting drunk and attending church. Just being realistic.
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 24 July 2012 at 4:38pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* *Originally posted by Abu Loren* As'alaamu Alaikkum ... this can be said of all of the other faiths,... To accuse the religion of Islam and whole of the Muslim community of such things is wrong. I know many many many many Christians who will only grace the footsteps of a church on Christmas Eve, after getting drunk... I agree with what you have said here. It can be said of all faiths, and I do not accuse the whole of the Muslim community, and did not mean to seem as if I did. I do not accuse anyone. I was just making a statement regarding the make up of the Islamic community. There are those who are there because they are religious and there are those who are there because they like the culture. I think people do not recognize the difference between belonging to the culture and belonging to the religion. And I agree, those who call themselves Christians but do not live the life prescribed by God are deceiving themselves. They do not belong to God. On judgement day they will be told, "I never knew ye, because ye never knew Me, though you proclaimed My name". I left off the 'out of their minds' bit because I have to say, when I see Muslims shooting off weapons in the streets in the mid-east, that is 'out of their minds' to me. In countries where the people do not have enough they waste money on ammunition? I did not care to own a weapon because of the cost... ammunition is not cheap, and not what is considered a necessity. I often wonder what might be accomplished, if overseas, they took all that money they pour into owning and firing weapons, into cultivating the land, building machinery and technology, irrigation systems and such. How might life be improved. Anyway, I digress. And thanks for sharing as regards sharia law. Still unclear on that one as the state law seems to come from the Qur'anic law, which still makes the religion of Islam political. Thanks for your reply. Caringheart Many Islamic states are run by tyrants who suppress the people and they live a life of luxury. The sad thing about that is that these countries are oil rich and the ordinary people should be living a comfortable life, instead most live in squalor.
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