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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Islam, is it a culture or a religion? Post Reply Post New Topic
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2012 at 12:04am
So you are saying that you lack faith?
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2012 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

So you are saying that you lack faith?


Faith - it's a complicated thing, isn't it?
Shall I share with you my long answer?

If I shall, it will have to wait until Monday.  I will be away from my desk until then. Smile

I just took this from the quotes thread;
I know that I don't know anything. - Socrates
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2012 at 2:59am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren

So you are saying that you lack faith?


Faith - it's a complicated thing, isn't it?
Shall I share with you my long answer?

If I shall, it will have to wait until Monday.  I will be away from my desk until then. Smile

I just took this from the quotes thread;
I know that I don't know anything. - Socrates
 
Faith is not a complicated thing. If you BELIEVE that there is a God and that He created us and that He gave us the instructions in how to live a life that is good according to His commands and  that you believe that in Him and He will reward you after you have died and He has resurructed you then NO it is not complicated. Complication sets in when a person, a mere human being thinks to him/herself that they know more than the God that dreated him/her. Arrogant people will never believe because they think that there is only this life and when you die then that's the end. This belief in nothing ultimately gives them the freedom to live a life that they want to live.
 
There is no grey area in this, either you have faith and you believe or you don't. I suspect (forgive me for the assumption) that you do not have faith and that you are bordering on being an atheist. This is also fine as long as you know the consequences. Even if you don't believe then at least have this thought at the back of your mind that all sinners who do not repent will go to hell and burn forever.


Edited by Abu Loren - 17 July 2012 at 3:02am
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2012 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren

So you are saying that you lack faith?

Faith - it's a complicated thing, isn't it?
Shall I share with you my long answer?

If I shall, it will have to wait until Monday.  I will be away from my desk until then. Smile

I just took this from the quotes thread;
I know that I don't know anything. - Socrates
 
Faith is not a complicated thing. If you BELIEVE that there is a God and that He created us and that He gave us the instructions in how to live a life that is good according to His commands and  that you believe that in Him and He will reward you after you have died and He has resurructed you then NO it is not complicated. Complication sets in when a person, a mere human being thinks to him/herself that they know more than the God that dreated him/her. Arrogant people will never believe because they think that there is only this life and when you die then that's the end. This belief in nothing ultimately gives them the freedom to live a life that they want to live.
 
There is no grey area in this, either you have faith and you believe or you don't. I suspect (forgive me for the assumption) that you do not have faith and that you are bordering on being an atheist. This is also fine as long as you know the consequences. Even if you don't believe then at least have this thought at the back of your mind that all sinners who do not repent will go to hell and burn forever.


Ok, so here's the long version. (My plans have been delayed)
First I offer greetings again.  Smile

Faith
It's complicated.
Let's just say I don't have blind faith.

Faith alone is not enough.
It is too easy to misplace faith... to put it in a wrong person.. too easy to be deceived, misled.
We must always be seeking Truth.
"Complication sets in when a person, a mere human being thinks to him/herself that they know more than the God that dreated him/her. "
We have many claiming to have heard from God but these men, these 'mere humans', have differing messages.  So whose God?  Which faith?

I don't believe in religion.
It's that sort of thing that causes wars.
The prophets taught.
Religion tries to control.
Jesus did not believe in religion.  Jesus did not teach religion.  He spoke against the establishment.

I absolutely have faith in God.  I have known God ever since I was a young child.
Do I think man can be self serving?  Misguided?
Ancient thinking and philosophy... every ancient civilization and tribe believed in its own god, and that when they were victorious in battle it was because their god went before them.  They all fought in the name of their god or gods.

So is God a great mystery?  Yes.
Do I know all?  No.
Can I be sure that the Jewish tradition isn't made up stories?
What I find I can't deny are the prophesies... Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel
I can't deny the wisdom that is in the Bible.  Every answer, to every thing, we ever needed to know, is in the Bible.(That's a quote from me, given to me by God.)  I can't deny Jesus, and I can't deny the astounding conversion of Paul.
The ten commandments... who can deny them?
I can't deny that living God's way is best for mankind.

__________________________________________

Bar'chu et adonai Ham'vorach l'olam va'ed
Praised be Adonai, to whom our praise is due, now and forever!
~ blessed are You o Lord our God , eternity's Holy King ~


Edited by Caringheart - 17 July 2012 at 3:17pm
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2012 at 3:50pm
@Abu Loren
You had also asked about contradiction in the Qur'an.  I have not had time, nor energy, to apply myself properly to this, but as I was reading yesterday I did make this note.  When I reread your post today I was reminded that you had asked.

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion."


Also today as I was reading I made a note about this;
8:67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land.
This is Muhammad who was the peaceful messenger?
Sincere regards,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 17 July 2012 at 4:09pm
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2012 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

@Abu Loren
You had also asked about contradiction in the Qur'an.  I have not had time, nor energy, to apply myself properly to this, but as I was reading yesterday I did make this note.  When I reread your post today I was reminded that you had asked.

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

2:256 "There is no compulsion in religion."


Also today as I was reading I made a note about this;
8:67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land.
This is Muhammad who was the peaceful messenger?
Sincere regards,
Caringheart

 
As'alaamu Alaikkum
 
I refuse to entertain a person who has never read the Holy Qur'an. You pick and choose verses that suits you.
 
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
 
The tasfir for the above states thus :-
 
And fight them until sedition, idolatry, is, exists, no more and religion is all for God, alone, none other being worshipped; then if they desist, from unbelief, surely God sees what they do, and will requite them for it.
 
The Prophet Muhammed was ordered to fight the idolators of Arabia so that the religion of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala can be established. Fighting was ordained because idolators are condemned in this world and the next.
 
This is nothing compared to the fate of the people of Prophet Noah (pbuh) or the people of  Prophet Lot (pbuh) and various other communities which God annihilated completely from the face of the Earth. If you want to compare violence ordained by God then the Bible wins and takes first place. God can destroy or bless whomever He wills because He is the Creator and will establish authority on this Earth.
 
Also today as I was reading I made a note about this;
8:67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land.
This is Muhammad who was the peaceful messenger?
 
Tasfir
 
The following was revealed when they ransomed those taken captive at Badr: It is not for any Prophet to have (read as an takūna lahu or an yakūna lahu) prisoners until he has made slaughter in the land, going all the way in fighting disbelievers. You, O believers, desire the transient things of this world, its ephemeral gains, by ransoming, while God desires, for you, the Hereafter, that is, its reward, through your killing them; and God is Mighty, Wise: this was abrogated by His words [and set them free] afterward either with grace or by ransom
 
Verse 8:67 was revealed because most of the Muslims were more interested in war booty and the payments from the ransom of prisoners. What Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala is saying is that it is better for these polytheists to be killed than keeping them alive lest they return to idolotry. It was not a license for the Muslims to randonely slaughter their captives. The majority of the prisoners converted to Islam, untimately the whole of the Arabian Peninsula.
 
Prophet Muhammed (pbu) WAS a peaceful messenger, you are making statements without knowing who Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) really was. I suggest you read the Hadiths of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and come back and make comments.
 
www.sunnah.com is an excellent resource.
 
regards

 


Edited by Abu Loren - 17 July 2012 at 11:33pm
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Abu Loren
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2012 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

What I find I can't deny are the prophesies... Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel
I can't deny the wisdom that is in the Bible.  Every answer, to every thing, we ever needed to know, is in the Bible.(That's a quote from me, given to me by God.)  I can't deny Jesus, and I can't deny the astounding conversion of Paul.
The ten commandments... who can deny them?
I can't deny that living God's way is best for mankind.


 
Indeed no true believer can deny the wisdom that is in the Bible, HOWEVER one has to weed out the additions and the downright blasphemy that is contained in the Bible.
 
Sahih International
Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers. 5:44
 
Why do the rabbis and religious scholars not forbid them from saying what is sinful and devouring what is unlawful? How wretched is what they have been practicing. 5:63
 
They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. 9:31
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Matt Browne
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Quote Matt Browne Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2012 at 4:04am
Islam is a cultural, religious and political system.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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