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Interfaith Dialogue
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Topic: Islam, is it a culture or a religion?
    Posted: 13 July 2012 at 6:52pm
As I am reading tonight I have some thoughts.  I don't know how well to express them.  (I am not at home on my own computer so not as easy to hold a thought Tongue)
So anyway, just so I don't forget altogether I thought I would at least post the question that is in my mind.
 
Islam, is it a culture or is it a religion?  (or a regime?... I feel I have to ask that too)
 
The reason this question comes to my mind is because when I think of the people who are joining Islam... I believe it is the culture that attracts them.  I believe the Muslim people live in a way that has been missing in the world ever since the 1960's, and the drifting away from strongly held values, that we have seen change and alter the world, and not in good ways.  I believe we are seeing the bad fruits of drifting away from those values, while the Muslims, which came later, are still holding to those values.  I think we see something in them that we miss in our own society.
 
But I do not think the religion and the culture are one and the same.
I see a great deal of confusion in the religion, though the culture is attractive.
And though the culture is attractive, because the religion is not clear, it can also be dangerous.
 
I don't know if that really says what I am trying to express, but I gave it a shot.  I may add or change later.
 
But I would love any feedback.
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Quote abjad Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2012 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

As I am reading tonight I have some thoughts.  I don't know how well to express them.  (I am not at home on my own computer so not as easy to hold a thought Tongue)
So anyway, just so I don't forget altogether I thought I would at least post the question that is in my mind.
 
Islam, is it a culture or is it a religion?  (or a regime?... I feel I have to ask that too)
 
The reason this question comes to my mind is because when I think of the people who are joining Islam... I believe it is the culture that attracts them.  I believe the Muslim people live in a way that has been missing in the world ever since the 1960's, and the drifting away from strongly held values, that we have seen change and alter the world, and not in good ways.  I believe we are seeing the bad fruits of drifting away from those values, while the Muslims, which came later, are still holding to those values.  I think we see something in them that we miss in our own society.
 
But I do not think the religion and the culture are one and the same.
I see a great deal of confusion in the religion, though the culture is attractive.
And though the culture is attractive, because the religion is not clear, it can also be dangerous.
 
I don't know if that really says what I am trying to express, but I gave it a shot.  I may add or change later.
 
But I would love any feedback.
Heart


 
 


Deen Islam.

a religion.

In red above, try to twist your mind and think to others parallel to your writings.


Are you taking about ISLAM or Muslims?

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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2012 at 1:17am
As'alaamu Alaikkum
 
Reading your threads and replies throughout this forum it is clear that you have a warped view if Islam and Muslims. In my honest opinion, a person like you will never ever understand Islam and what it stands for. You have your set ways with a Christian mentality.
 
Anyway, to answer this particular question, Islam is a religion that was sent down to mankind as a last chance for salvation. It is also a correct way of life that is to be lived in accordance with the divine laws that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala gave us. However, there are culture from different parts of the world seeping into the religion. For example, Muslim marriages are conducted more culturally than religiosly. There are also instances where culture and religion are blurred and can cross over between the two.
 
Sahih International
Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account. 3:19
 
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion- never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. 3:85
 
Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me. 21:92
 
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2012 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum
 
Reading your threads and replies throughout this forum it is clear that you have a warped view if Islam and Muslims. In my honest opinion, a person like you will never ever understand Islam and what it stands for. You have your set ways with a Christian mentality.
 
Anyway, to answer this particular question, Islam is a religion that was sent down to mankind as a last chance for salvation. It is also a correct way of life that is to be lived in accordance with the divine laws that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala gave us. However, there are culture from different parts of the world seeping into the religion. For example, Muslim marriages are conducted more culturally than religiosly. There are also instances where culture and religion are blurred and can cross over between the two.
 
Sahih International
Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in [taking] account. 3:19
 
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion- never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. 3:85
 
Indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so worship Me. 21:92
 


Greetings Abu-Loren,

I'm sorry that you have such an opinion of me.  I have done a lot of research.
I think I do have a great understanding of Islam and what it stands for.  I feel that I understand the culture of Islam quite well, but of course I am still and always learning.  It is why I am here on these forums.
It is the religion that I find problematic.

You think I have a locked in view of what Islam is, and what Muslims are.  I do not, or I would not be here on these forums asking the questions that I ask.  I am seeking.  I am exploring.  All in the endeavor towards greater understanding for all.  I have a many varied view of what Islam is, and what Muslims are, as I have the same view of all the world.  It is a kaleidoscope, a many colored tapestry of people and ideas. 
"a person like you will never ever understand Islam and what it stands for."
If you mean by this that I will never shut down, or close my mind, so that I have only one way of thinking, you are correct.  I seek God's guidance into all things and I am open to all that is shared by different people everywhere. 
If you mean, will I understand Islam to mean what you understand Islam to mean, you may be correct,
but I have found my conversations here quite interesting and helpful to understanding.

There are two people I have found on these forums, Nausheen and Dayem, that give very good, and helpful, explanations of Quran'ic scripture.  Oftentimes it is in how we understand, or misunderstand the scriptures which we are reading.

Regarding the passages you quote.

These are things spoken by Muhammad as if by God, but we have no proof, or evidence, that these words are of God, only that Muhammad says so.

Only through discussions with people of the faith of Islam can I learn, and what I am finding is that the people of the faith of Islam... just like any other people, just as in any other religion or culture... are many varied in what they know, what they believe, and in how they conduct themselves.

This is why the question religion or culture?

What I see is that Islam is following the same type of evolution that the Christian church has gone through.
Just as in Christianity, which began in Catholicism (the universal church), when differences in thinking occurred, branches broke off, so I see that there is the same in Islam.  While all are following the Word as they believe it to be revealed, they follow it in the way they understand it to be intended. 
In Islam it depends on which scriptures are made the main focus as there are many conflicting messages in the message of Muhammad. 
I could say the same about Christianity... some believe in focusing on the message of grace only, others understand the full Word of God which says that "without works, faith is dead"(read James chapter 2, whole chapter). 
Some understand that we are instructed to "be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only". 
Jesus says, "Think not that I come to destroy the Law. or the Prophets.  I am come not to destroy them. but to fulfill them".
Christianity teaches by the writings of the several men inspired of God.

Muhammad's word itself, was always changing, according to circumstances.  So I ask, how could it be given by God?  It was never one law for all and for always.  With Muhammad's teaching you sort of have to pick your place in time of what teaching you will follow.  More of a culture thing than a religious thing.
The difference we have in the two teachings is that the Word in the Biblical scriptures does not change, only the way the different people choose to understand them.  This is a failing in the people, not the scriptures.  In Islam both, the word of Muhammad changes, and the way the people choose to understand can be different.

What I see is that Islam... just like Christianity, just like Judaism, just like any religion... is many varied.
I see many choosing to not admit the truth and remain blind to certain facts of the history of Islam, while Christianity has long ago admitted its distasteful, repugnant, often shameful, and regretful history.  We are only humans after all trying our best to follow God.  We are far from perfected.  "To err is human, to forgive is divine", just came to mind.  If we were perfected we would already be in heaven.
I also see that there are those who have 'kept what is good, and left off what is not good', in following the faith, and that is Godly.

You see Islam as so different from Christianity or Judaism... I do not.  I see us all trying to follow and live for God the best way that we know how.  Many have gotten, and are lost, but God's Word told us this would be so... that 'the path, and the gate is narrow, and there are only few who find it'.

May peace be on your day.
Heart


Edited by Caringheart - 14 July 2012 at 5:14pm
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Quote nothing Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2012 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Islam, is it a culture or is it a religion?  (or a regime?... I feel I have to ask that too)


Both. It is bond that binding different people and binding the family together. The muslim community has lower divorce rate in comparison to others.
The people in Islam too are different level, majority as layman muslims and some just born differently. Some obeying every writing without question and some analysing it. Some want to do everything in it and some only can do so much.

Ramadhan is coming and you will see muslims that hardly involve in anything Islam will surface here. Than in eidul fitri there will be more people that we hardly met, my friend refer them as yearly muslims.

Islam is also political force believe it or not. Regardless of what the opposition, it was and it is still politically active religion and will always will be. Some Muslims dislike politic and they say it is wrong to politicized Islam. But that would be unnatural. Beside for the disagreed there always different to advance Islam.


Edited by nothing - 14 July 2012 at 6:37pm
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2012 at 10:49am
As'alaamu Alaikkum

I'm sorry that you have such an opinion of me. I have done a lot of research.

Have you read the Holy Qur'an? All 114 chapters?
You are accusing and insulting.


I think I do have a great understanding of Islam and what it stands for. I feel that I understand the culture of Islam quite well, but of course I am still and always learning. It is why I am here on these forums. It is the religion that I find problematic.

From what you have written so far about Islam and Muslims it seems to me that you don't even know the basics of Islam.

Regarding the passages you quote. These are things spoken by Muhammad as if by God, but we have no proof, or evidence, that these words are of God, only that Muhammad says so.

More insults. You think the Holy Qur'an is the work of one man that is Muhammed. I believe it is a revelations sent down to him by God Almighty through the Archangel Jibril (AS). There is not proof that the Torah and the Gospels are the work of God, are they the works and words of Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them )? How can you be sure that when Moses (pbuh) came down from the mountain with the tablets of stone, he didn't write it?

What I see is that Islam is following the same type of evolution that the Christian church has gone through. Just as in Christianity, which began in Catholicism (the universal church), when differences in thinking occurred, branches broke off, so I see that there is the same in Islam. While all are following the Word as they believe it to be revealed, they follow it in the way they understand it to be intended. In Islam it depends on which scriptures are made the main focus as there are many conflicting messages in the message of Muhammad.

List the conflicting messages that Muhammed (pbuh) has stated.

Muhammad's word itself, was always changing, according to circumstances. So I ask, how could it be given by God? It was never one law for all and for always. With Muhammad's teaching you sort of have to pick your place in time of what teaching you will follow. More of a culture thing than a religious thing. The difference we have in the two teachings is that the Word in the Biblical scriptures does not change, only the way the different people choose to understand them. This is a failing in the people, not the scriptures. In Islam both, the word of Muhammad changes, and the way the people choose to understand can be different.

I'm really confused by what you are trying to say here.

You see Islam as so different from Christianity or Judaism... I do not. I see us all trying to follow and live for God the best way that we know how. Many have gotten, and are lost, but God's Word told us this would be so... that 'the path, and the gate is narrow, and there are only few who find it'.

Islam IS so different from Judaism and Christianity. The Jews corrupted their scripture just like the Christians have mixed their with Roman paganism. Islam is a pure religion that is untainted because it is as it was revealed to the Prophet Muhammed. Nothing has been added and nothing has been taken away.

Masalama
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2012 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by nothing



Ramadhan is coming and you will see muslims that hardly involve in anything Islam will surface here. Than in eidul fitri there will be more people that we hardly met, my friend refer them as yearly muslims.


Sounds like the Catholics.  The ones that come out for Christmas and Easter.
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2012 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

As'alaamu Alaikkum
How can you be sure that when Moses (pbuh) came down from the mountain with the tablets of stone, he didn't write it?

Masalama


I only have time right now to answer this one thing;
"How can you be sure that when Moses (pbuh) came down from the mountain with the tablets of stone, he didn't write it? "
I can't be sure, and I have asked myself that question. Smile
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