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Interfaith Dialogue
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 13 August 2012 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by bunter

Originally posted by honeto

Caringheart, so you are saying:
1- that as a Christian you are not obligated to obey God, if one do it it is out of love. Is that it?
2-..that God died?
Hasan

Just to join in. We are told as Christians to love God with all our hearts and mind and strength. If you love someone you will want to please them and in God's case that means avoiding sin and doing good works. There are of course laws but for a Christian there is more to it than that because we want to do God's will and seek out and follow his plan for our lives and you cannot find that written down anywhere.

The mortal body of Jesus died just like our mortal bodies will eventually die so your question does not make entire sense unless of course you believe that when the mortal part dies nothing remains, that is the end for eternity?

So you are saying whatever pleases your heart becomes God's will, since you don't find laws written anywhere, or is it that you lost them?

And you are saying that God has a body and soul like us?

Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 14 August 2012 at 2:55am
So you are saying whatever pleases your heart becomes God's will, since you don't find laws written anywhere, or is it that you lost them? And you are saying that God has a body and soul like us?
Hasan


You must learn to read what people say. Nowhere did I say there were no laws anywhere. But what I did say was that you cannot lookup in any scripture what you are supposed to do with your life, your career, you marriage partner and so on, those have to be worked out through prayer and a longing to do God's will. So it's very far from doing what you like because as Christians we hand over our life to God in sacrifice and service.

As to a body and soul my comments were about Jesus incarnate, God with us. Do you believe that there is more than just our bodies? One must also ask if you have a relationship with God, that God will speak directly to you and so know his plans for you, that you can know him?
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2012 at 1:12pm
bunter,
there is nothing different for a Muslim, we also love God, and purpose of our lives is to please our maker:
"It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah fearing. " The Quran 2:177

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 15 August 2012 at 1:13pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2012 at 2:43pm
Originally posted by honeto

bunter, there is nothing different for a Muslim, we also love God, and purpose of our lives is to please our maker: "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah fearing. " The Quran 2:177

For Christians the driving force is that God loved us first, while we were yet sinners. The ideas are summed up in the following verses. 

Titus 3:5 (AMP) "He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit."

Matthew 22:37-40 (AMP) "And He replied to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind (intellect). This is the great (most important, principal) and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself. These two commandments sum up and upon them depend all the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 5:44 (AMP) "But I tell you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2012 at 8:36am
Bunter,
for Muslims, it is the love and mercy of God, that he gave us the guidance, faculties and abilities to benefit from them. True believers accept that love and reply with love to God by fulfilling their duties.

4:69 (Y. Ali) All who obey Allah and the apostle are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!

28:86 (Y. Ali) And thou hadst not expected that the Book would be sent to thee except as a mercy from thy Lord: Therefore lend not thou support in any way to those who reject (allah's Message).
24:10 (Y. Ali) If it were not for allah's grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft- Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed).
2:109 (Y. Ali) Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 17 August 2012 at 8:38am
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2012 at 9:42am
Originally posted by honeto

Bunter, for Muslims, it is the love and mercy of God, that he gave us the guidance, faculties and abilities to benefit from them. True believers accept that love and reply with love to God by fulfilling their duties.

4:69 (Y. Ali) All who obey Allah and the apostle are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!

28:86 (Y. Ali) And thou hadst not expected that the Book would be sent to thee except as a mercy from thy Lord: Therefore lend not thou support in any way to those who reject (allah's Message).
24:10 (Y. Ali) If it were not for allah's grace and mercy on you, and that Allah is Oft- Returning, full of Wisdom,- (Ye would be ruined indeed).
2:109 (Y. Ali) Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.

There is much here we might agree on regarding obedience. However, Christians would not ever think in terms of obeying God AND the apostle because that seems to equate the apostle with God and to Christians that sounds like blasphemy.

I wonder if there is also a difference after reading these verses in they way we see God working. To quote:

Romans 5:6-8 (AMP)
6 While we were yet in weakness [powerless to help ourselves], at the fitting time Christ died for (in behalf of) the ungodly. 7 Now it is an extraordinary thing for one to give his life even for an upright man, though perhaps for a noble and lovable and generous benefactor someone might even dare to die. 8 But God shows and clearly proves His [own] love for us by the fact that while we were still sinners, Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for us.

So God loves us even though we are sinners, so our hope is not in our righteousness but that we are forgiven sinners to whom God imputed his righteousness through Jesus so there is nothing we can do to earn it for it is a free gift through faith. Having being given such a gift the very last thing we want to do is sin anymore.

Edited by bunter - 17 August 2012 at 9:57am
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2012 at 7:45pm
@Bunter
He just doesn't get it and you will find that you keep going around in the same circles. 
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2012 at 10:10am
Originally posted by Caringheart



@Bunter
He just doesn't get it and you will find that you keep going around in the same circles. 


Perhaps you can explain what 'it' is then I might get it. What my posts are about is sharing what we believe, is that such a bad idea?
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