IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Is interfaith dialogue really a good idea?

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Jocko

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Posted: 28 July 2012 at 8:57am

I have not posted to this Forum in a number of years. I am happy for the InterFaith Discussions. I am a lover of Jesus Christ - a Christian. And I feel that as a guest on this Muslim Forum, this is the appropriate room for me to be in.

Edited by Jocko - 28 July 2012 at 8:59am

I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!

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honeto

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Posted: 28 July 2012 at 1:54pm

Originally posted by danieldemol

What do you mean by mixed ideologies in a bowl?

That all religious ideologies are one and it does not matter at the end what or who do you worship.
Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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honeto

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Posted: 28 July 2012 at 2:18pm

Originally posted by Caringheart

Regarding what Matt writes;This is where culture and religion are intertwined and confused, and one of the things I have been trying to address, and needs to be addressed. The need to separate the culture, the religion, and the political endeavor. How this can be done is unclear, and indeed seems impossible. It is, however, this confusion, this entanglement, that creates such problems in the world. I believe the Muslims of Turkey are of the culture. I think many became Muslim to live in peace without any knowledge, caring, or concern as regards the religion. They did not care, they only did what was required to survive under the current ruler, and to call themselves Muslim meant to survive. I do not think the desert people were a religious people... they just lived life to survive day to day. And so today, many generations later, they call themselves Muslim with no idea what that means. It is not a religion they follow, only an identity they acquired.And I agree interfaith dialogue is a good idea... as long as people come to it with an open mind.

Mr. Caringheart,
cultures and faiths are inseparable no doubt about it, but you gave some very ignorant remarks about Muslims and the reasons they are Muslim. That is quite contrary to your belief that interfaith dialog is good.

If you cannot prove your belief to be true, that does not mean that others have the same problem and you have to assume same about them. It is offending and you are wrong.

I live here in the US and everyday I see people choosing to practice Islam because of their conviction of its truthfulness and simplicity just as always has been. Fifteen years ago there was only a tiny (house turned into) a mosque here in this town where I live in Texas. Today, there are three newly constructed big (Sunni) mosques apart from others (Shia and so on). There are so many people to worship on Friday's weekly service that each mosque has two services one after the other to accommodate the ever growing Muslim population here. I have lived in several states and saw the same. And let me tell you that these are not the people who according to your words above:
"they call themselves Muslim with no idea what that means. It is not a religion they follow, only an identity they acquired"
You are wrong Mr. Caringheart as I am one of them and I am sure you know by now what my belief is and what I know of others beliefs.

As far as the matter of interfaith dialog, my opinion is that there should be a clear defined purpose. One thing is to inform others of your belief and find common ground toward good for all. To preach and look better by putting others down without even giving any proofs is another story.
Interfaith dialog should not be a religious discussion or debate as it seem in this section. That need to be separate, I love to debate but that is harmful in interfaith dialog.
I have very good relations with people who are devout Christians, as we both strive for good conduct in life. We do not debate principles of our beliefs rather what is expected of our lives and what pleases God. We call each other "brother", and seek good for each other and pray for each other.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 28 July 2012 at 2:57pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Caringheart

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Posted: 28 July 2012 at 3:33pm

Originally posted by honeto

Dear Hasan,

and you are saying that interfaith dialogue is not good, why?

My comments were with reference to people around the world. And you insult me and call my comments ignorant when if you did a little research you could easily verify the truth of them. Whenever I am told a differing opinion I do research into the matter. I "test and approve all things". Just as Nausheen has done with the thread on Apostasy. She does not attempt to deny the truth but verifies the intricacies of the matter. This is what brings clarity. Truth is almost always somewhere in the middle. Discussion is to stimulate thought and encourage further study. Do you imagine interfaith dialogue is only good when one person can say what they believe and the other person agrees, or shares no opinion of their own? It sounds to me like this is the only type of discussion you want to have.
I am not the one who turns these discussions into debates. I ask questions. What I get for answers is not an explanation of Islam but an attack of all things not Islam.

This is why I say "if they can come to it with an open mind". You must be willing to explore the truth of what others say and know, even if you are uncomfortable with it.

I know what your belief is... this does not mean that you have full comprehension of the religion that you follow. It means you go to mosque and participate just like most others who have religion. The reasons they go are many varied.

"I have very good relations with people who are devout Christians, as we both strive for good conduct in life. We do not debate principles of our beliefs rather what is expected of our lives and what pleases God."

This is good to hear. I hope this means you can see the good of the life of a Christian(or a Jew).
Peace to you,
We have between us(you and I) obstacles of culture and communication to overcome. Smile

Caringheart

Edited by Caringheart - 28 July 2012 at 3:34pm

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danieldemol
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Posted: 28 July 2012 at 4:05pm

Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by danieldemol

What do you mean by mixed ideologies in a bowl?

That all religious ideologies are one and it does not matter at the end what or who do you worship.
Hasan

In that case you would enjoy the Baha'i faith, because unlike in Islam where a significant portion of the people commonly take their sheikhs as their lords in derogation of Allah, Baha'is worship Allah alone, and it is very important in the Baha'i faith to worship Allah instead of others such as sheikhs, ulama etc.

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Friendship

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Posted: 29 July 2012 at 10:40am

Assalamu alaikum.

I firmly and unreservedly believe that the best and most effective way to arrest recession depression, al-qaeda and all evils is through interfaith dialogue provided the Jews and Christians will listen and understand what Muhammad said ON AND ABOUT THEIR MESSENGERS AND PROPHETS.
The Jews and Christians must actively participate in the establishment of the caliphate. The truth has been told by Professor Phillip K. Hitti that Arabs are doing lip service to Islam. So the new social order should discard the Arabs and other Muslims attitude to Islam which is hypocritical.Let us read the sources and understand the ONE G-D.

Friendship

Edited by Friendship - 29 July 2012 at 10:42am

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Caringheart

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Posted: 29 July 2012 at 1:09pm

Discussion is to stimulate thought and encourage further study. Do you imagine interfaith dialogue is only good when one person can say what they believe and the other person agrees, or shares no opinion of their own? This is not dialogue.

Once again, while my reply to Hasan has not yet appeared, friendship's post has.

Dialogue
1. conversation between two or more persons.
3. an exchange of ideas or opinions on a particular issue, especially a political or religious issue, with a view to reaching an amicable agreement or settlement.
4. to carry on a dialogue; converse.
5. to discuss areas of disagreement frankly in order to resolve them.

Discussion
1. an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic
2. an exchange of views on some topic

Communication
the activity of communicating; the activity of conveying information

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should be not victory, but progress" [Joseph Joubert Pensées]

One can hardly have a discussion, or dialogue, when only one person's views are allowed.

Edited by Caringheart - 29 July 2012 at 1:28pm

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Matt Browne
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Joined: 19 April 2010
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Posts: 755

Posted: 31 July 2012 at 10:08am

Friendship, let me assure you that the Jews and Christians will do everything to prevent the establishment of the caliphate. Theocracies are a construct of the 7th century. Secular democracies with freedom of religion are far superior. These democratic societies discovered DNA, sent people to the moon, and created the world wide web and web browsers. If they hadn't you wouldn't be able to make posts like the one above. Educated Christians are interested in Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, but this doesn't mean that they want to change their religion.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Interfaith Dialogue
IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue

Topic: Is interfaith dialogue really a good idea?
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Author	Message
Jocko Senior Member Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 179	Posted: 28 July 2012 at 8:57am
	I have not posted to this Forum in a number of years. I am happy for the InterFaith Discussions. I am a lover of Jesus Christ - a Christian. And I feel that as a guest on this Muslim Forum, this is the appropriate room for me to be in. Edited by Jocko - 28 July 2012 at 8:59am
	I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 28 July 2012 at 1:54pm
	*Originally posted by danieldemol* What do you mean by mixed ideologies in a bowl? That all religious ideologies are one and it does not matter at the end what or who do you worship. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 28 July 2012 at 2:18pm
	*Originally posted by Caringheart* Regarding what Matt writes;This is where culture and religion are intertwined and confused, and one of the things I have been trying to address, and needs to be addressed. The need to separate the culture, the religion, and the political endeavor. How this can be done is unclear, and indeed seems impossible. It is, however, this confusion, this entanglement, that creates such problems in the world. I believe the Muslims of Turkey are of the culture. I think many became Muslim to live in peace without any knowledge, caring, or concern as regards the religion. They did not care, they only did what was required to survive under the current ruler, and to call themselves Muslim meant to survive. I do not think the desert people were a religious people... they just lived life to survive day to day. And so today, many generations later, they call themselves Muslim with no idea what that means. It is not a religion they follow, only an identity they acquired.And I agree interfaith dialogue is a good idea... as long as people come to it with an open mind. Mr. Caringheart, cultures and faiths are inseparable no doubt about it, but you gave some very ignorant remarks about Muslims and the reasons they are Muslim. That is quite contrary to your belief that interfaith dialog is good. If you cannot prove your belief to be true, that does not mean that others have the same problem and you have to assume same about them. It is offending and you are wrong. I live here in the US and everyday I see people choosing to practice Islam because of their conviction of its truthfulness and simplicity just as always has been. Fifteen years ago there was only a tiny (house turned into) a mosque here in this town where I live in Texas. Today, there are three newly constructed big (Sunni) mosques apart from others (Shia and so on). There are so many people to worship on Friday's weekly service that each mosque has two services one after the other to accommodate the ever growing Muslim population here. I have lived in several states and saw the same. And let me tell you that these are not the people who according to your words above: "they call themselves Muslim with no idea what that means. It is not a religion they follow, only an identity they acquired" You are wrong Mr. Caringheart as I am one of them and I am sure you know by now what my belief is and what I know of others beliefs. As far as the matter of interfaith dialog, my opinion is that there should be a clear defined purpose. One thing is to inform others of your belief and find common ground toward good for all. To preach and look better by putting others down without even giving any proofs is another story. Interfaith dialog should not be a religious discussion or debate as it seem in this section. That need to be separate, I love to debate but that is harmful in interfaith dialog. I have very good relations with people who are devout Christians, as we both strive for good conduct in life. We do not debate principles of our beliefs rather what is expected of our lives and what pleases God. We call each other "brother", and seek good for each other and pray for each other. Hasan Edited by honeto - 28 July 2012 at 2:57pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 28 July 2012 at 3:33pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* *Originally posted by Caringheart* Regarding what Matt writes;This is where culture and religion are intertwined and confused, and one of the things I have been trying to address, and needs to be addressed. The need to separate the culture, the religion, and the political endeavor. How this can be done is unclear, and indeed seems impossible. It is, however, this confusion, this entanglement, that creates such problems in the world. I believe the Muslims of Turkey are of the culture. I think many became Muslim to live in peace without any knowledge, caring, or concern as regards the religion. They did not care, they only did what was required to survive under the current ruler, and to call themselves Muslim meant to survive. I do not think the desert people were a religious people... they just lived life to survive day to day. And so today, many generations later, they call themselves Muslim with no idea what that means. It is not a religion they follow, only an identity they acquired.And I agree interfaith dialogue is a good idea... as long as people come to it with an open mind. Mr. Caringheart, cultures and faiths are inseparable no doubt about it, but you gave some very ignorant remarks about Muslims and the reasons they are Muslim. That is quite contrary to your belief that interfaith dialog is good. If you cannot prove your belief to be true, that does not mean that others have the same problem and you have to assume same about them. It is offending and you are wrong. I live here in the US and everyday I see people choosing to practice Islam because of their conviction of its truthfulness and simplicity just as always has been. Fifteen years ago there was only a tiny (house turned into) a mosque here in this town where I live in Texas. Today, there are three newly constructed big (Sunni) mosques apart from others (Shia and so on). There are so many people to worship on Friday's weekly service that each mosque has two services one after the other to accommodate the ever growing Muslim population here. I have lived in several states and saw the same. And let me tell you that these are not the people who according to your words above: "they call themselves Muslim with no idea what that means. It is not a religion they follow, only an identity they acquired" You are wrong Mr. Caringheart as I am one of them and I am sure you know by now what my belief is and what I know of others beliefs. As far as the matter of interfaith dialog, my opinion is that there should be a clear defined purpose. One thing is to inform others of your belief and find common ground toward good for all. To preach and look better by putting others down without even giving any proofs is another story. Interfaith dialog should not be a religious discussion or debate as it seem in this section. That need to be separate, I love to debate but that is harmful in interfaith dialog. I have very good relations with people who are devout Christians, as we both strive for good conduct in life. We do not debate principles of our beliefs rather what is expected of our lives and what pleases God. We call each other "brother", and seek good for each other and pray for each other. Hasan Dear Hasan, and you are saying that interfaith dialogue is not good, why? My comments were with reference to people around the world. And you insult me and call my comments ignorant when if you did a little research you could easily verify the truth of them. Whenever I am told a differing opinion I do research into the matter. I "test and approve all things". Just as Nausheen has done with the thread on Apostasy. She does not attempt to deny the truth but verifies the intricacies of the matter. This is what brings clarity. Truth is almost always somewhere in the middle. Discussion is to stimulate thought and encourage further study. Do you imagine interfaith dialogue is only good when one person can say what they believe and the other person agrees, or shares no opinion of their own? It sounds to me like this is the only type of discussion you want to have. I am not the one who turns these discussions into debates. I ask questions. What I get for answers is not an explanation of Islam but an attack of all things not Islam. This is why I say "if they can come to it with an open mind". You must be willing to explore the truth of what others say and know, even if you are uncomfortable with it. I know what your belief is... this does not mean that you have full comprehension of the religion that you follow. It means you go to mosque and participate just like most others who have religion. The reasons they go are many varied. "I have very good relations with people who are devout Christians, as we both strive for good conduct in life. We do not debate principles of our beliefs rather what is expected of our lives and what pleases God." This is good to hear. I hope this means you can see the good of the life of a Christian(or a Jew). Peace to you, We have between us(you and I) obstacles of culture and communication to overcome. Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 28 July 2012 at 3:34pm
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danieldemol Male Other Newbie Joined: 15 July 2012 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 14	Posted: 28 July 2012 at 4:05pm
	*Originally posted by honeto* *Originally posted by danieldemol* What do you mean by mixed ideologies in a bowl? That all religious ideologies are one and it does not matter at the end what or who do you worship. Hasan In that case you would enjoy the Baha'i faith, because unlike in Islam where a significant portion of the people commonly take their sheikhs as their lords in derogation of Allah, Baha'is worship Allah alone, and it is very important in the Baha'i faith to worship Allah instead of others such as sheikhs, ulama etc.
	IP Logged

Friendship Senior Member Joined: 24 August 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 874	Posted: 29 July 2012 at 10:40am
	Assalamu alaikum. I firmly and unreservedly believe that the best and most effective way to arrest recession depression, al-qaeda and all evils is through interfaith dialogue provided the Jews and Christians will listen and understand what Muhammad said ON AND ABOUT THEIR MESSENGERS AND PROPHETS. The Jews and Christians must actively participate in the establishment of the caliphate. The truth has been told by Professor Phillip K. Hitti that Arabs are doing lip service to Islam. So the new social order should discard the Arabs and other Muslims attitude to Islam which is hypocritical.Let us read the sources and understand the ONE G-D. Friendship Edited by Friendship - 29 July 2012 at 10:42am
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 29 July 2012 at 1:09pm
	Discussion is to stimulate thought and encourage further study. Do you imagine interfaith dialogue is only good when one person can say what they believe and the other person agrees, or shares no opinion of their own? This is not dialogue. Once again, while my reply to Hasan has not yet appeared, friendship's post has. Dialogue 1. conversation between two or more persons. 3. an exchange of ideas or opinions on a particular issue, especially a political or religious issue, with a view to reaching an amicable agreement or settlement. 4. to carry on a dialogue; converse. 5. to discuss areas of disagreement frankly in order to resolve them. Discussion 1. an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic 2. an exchange of views on some topic Communication the activity of communicating; the activity of conveying information "The aim of argument, or of discussion, should be not victory, but progress" [Joseph Joubert Pensées] One can hardly have a discussion, or dialogue, when only one person's views are allowed. Edited by Caringheart - 29 July 2012 at 1:28pm
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Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 755	Posted: 31 July 2012 at 10:08am
	Friendship, let me assure you that the Jews and Christians will do everything to prevent the establishment of the caliphate. Theocracies are a construct of the 7th century. Secular democracies with freedom of religion are far superior. These democratic societies discovered DNA, sent people to the moon, and created the world wide web and web browsers. If they hadn't you wouldn't be able to make posts like the one above. Educated Christians are interested in Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, but this doesn't mean that they want to change their religion.
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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