IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: a question I have regarding Muhammad

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   Ok, let walk you through this. You said . . . .

Originally posted by Abu Loren

The whole reason why Jesus (pbuh) came was to correct the ways of the Jews who went astray.

I said . . .

Originally posted by kish

Another assumption, that is not the reason why Jesus came I believe you were misinformed. Jesus once said: “I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.” (Luke 4:43)

What is it that you do not understand; you are incorrect by saying “the whole reason why Jesus came was to correct the Jews.” The whole reason was to declare the GOSPEL[b/] the Good News of the Kingdom of God.

It was for this main reason Jesus was sent forth!!!   
Then I said . . .

Originally posted by kish

And no one said everything was perfect, only Jesus. No religion or prophet was ever perfect not even Jesus mother, Stepfather or siblings. 

Because you said . . .

Originally posted by Abu Loren

If everything was perfect then what is the reason for Jesus' coming to warn the Jews that they are deviating from God's laws?

Again, Jesus was sent forth to “declare the Gospel” the “Injil”, in the process he corrected those who would listen. 

Originally posted by Abu Loren

… Hajjer and Ishmael were taken to Mecca by prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) they were a muslim community. 

Where in the Torah does it say Abraham went to Mecca, is that another assumption because of Muhammad changing the story-line? What historical or scriptural proof do Muslims have outside Muhammad’s story that this true? Didn’t you also say Ishmael buried Abraham earlier? 
Originally posted by Abu Loren 1 - This is exactly what the Jews started, a hatred towards Hajer and Ishmael.
When, where and what proof, Chapter and verse?  

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Re-read the OT again and you will find the hatred directed towards Hajjer and Ishmael. 

You still haven’t shown me where the “Jews” started this. However I can show you where Ishmael started the hatred and persecution of Isaac.
Geneses 21:9, 10 And Sarah kept noticing the son of Ha′gar the Egyptian,+ whom she had borne to Abraham, poking fun.+ ¹⁰ So she began to say to Abraham: “Drive out this slave girl and her son, for the son of this slave girl is not going to be an heir with my son, with Isaac!”+
You see that! Ishmael was not going to be an heir with her son Isaac because of this fowl play.

Originally posted by Abu Loren

Ok ok God called Himself YHWH and Jehovah no problem. God id still God and there is only one so I don't think it matters what you call Him as long as you are worshipping the RIGHT God. 

No offense but the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob says that he does not want to get mixed up with these pagan god’s. It does matter since this is what God said! Who are you or anyone to say what they should or should not call God? Can your friends call you anything they want too, it’s that simple.

Originally posted by Abu Loren

 I honestly don't know why He let the Torah and the Injeel to be corrupted and why He promised to protect the Holy Qur'an. That is why I said 'Allahu Alum' which means God only knows in Arabic. 

Of course you don’t know because there is no perfectly good answer that would make since, God said he would protect it and God cannot lie but men and false prophets can lie and they do.
To be continued . . .
Kish  

Edited by Kish - 26 July 2012 at 1:21pm

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Kish Guest Group Joined: 07 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 237	Posted: 26 July 2012 at 1:21pm
	Ok, let walk you through this. You said . . . . *Originally posted by Abu Loren* The whole reason why Jesus (pbuh) came was to correct the ways of the Jews who went astray. I said . . . *Originally posted by kish* Another assumption, that is not the reason why Jesus came I believe you were misinformed. Jesus once said: “I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.” (Luke 4:43) What is it that you do not understand; you are incorrect by saying “the whole reason why Jesus came was to correct the Jews.” The whole reason was to declare the GOSPEL[b/] the Good News of the Kingdom of God. It was for this main reason Jesus was sent forth!!! Then I said . . . *Originally posted by kish* And no one said everything was perfect, only Jesus. No religion or prophet was ever perfect not even Jesus mother, Stepfather or siblings. Because you said . . . *Originally posted by Abu Loren* If everything was perfect then what is the reason for Jesus' coming to warn the Jews that they are deviating from God's laws? Again, Jesus was sent forth to “declare the Gospel” the “Injil”, in the process he corrected those who would listen. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* … Hajjer and Ishmael were taken to Mecca by prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) they were a muslim community. Where in the Torah does it say Abraham went to Mecca, is that another assumption because of Muhammad changing the story-line? What historical or scriptural proof do Muslims have outside Muhammad’s story that this true? Didn’t you also say Ishmael buried Abraham earlier? Originally posted by Abu Loren 1 - This is exactly what the Jews started, a hatred towards Hajer and Ishmael. When, where and what proof, Chapter and verse? *Originally posted by Abu Loren* Re-read the OT again and you will find the hatred directed towards Hajjer and Ishmael. You still haven’t shown me where the “Jews” started this. However I can show you where Ishmael started the hatred and persecution of Isaac. Geneses 21:9, 10 And Sarah kept noticing the son of Ha′gar the Egyptian,+ whom she had borne to Abraham, poking fun.+ ¹⁰ So she began to say to Abraham: “Drive out this slave girl and her son, for the son of this slave girl is not going to be an heir with my son, with Isaac!”+ You see that! Ishmael was not going to be an heir with her son Isaac because of this fowl play. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* Ok ok God called Himself YHWH and Jehovah no problem. God id still God and there is only one so I don't think it matters what you call Him as long as you are worshipping the RIGHT God. No offense but the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob says that he does not want to get mixed up with these pagan god’s. It does matter since this is what God said! Who are you or anyone to say what they should or should not call God? Can your friends call you anything they want too, it’s that simple. *Originally posted by Abu Loren* I honestly don't know why He let the Torah and the Injeel to be corrupted and why He promised to protect the Holy Qur'an. That is why I said 'Allahu Alum' which means God only knows in Arabic. Of course you don’t know because there is no perfectly good answer that would make since, God said he would protect it and God cannot lie but men and false prophets can lie and they do. To be continued . . . Kish Edited by Kish - 26 July 2012 at 1:21pm
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iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 26 July 2012 at 9:17pm
	God is not the author of the Bible.hence the corruption.
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Abu Loren Male Islam Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Arab Emirates Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 27 July 2012 at 3:10am
	What is it that you do not understand; you are incorrect by saying “the whole reason why Jesus came was to correct the Jews.” The whole reason was to declare the GOSPEL[b/] the Good News of the Kingdom of God.It was for this main reason Jesus was sent forth!!! Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? The Pharisees and Sadducees changed the religion to suit their own needs and they were hypocrites saying one thing to the masses and doing something completely different. The religion at that time was CORRUPTED and Jesus was sent to correct it. Again, Jesus was sent forth to “declare the Gospel” the “Injil”, in the process he corrected those who would listen. So by correcting them,they were in error? Where in the Torah does it say Abraham went to Mecca, is that another assumption because of Muhammad changing the story-line? What historical or scriptural proof do Muslims have outside Muhammad’s story that this true? Didn’t you also say Ishmael buried Abraham earlier? Originally posted by Abu Loren 1 - This is exactly what the Jews started, a hatred towards Hajer and Ishmael. When, where and what proof, Chapter and verse? It doesn't say that in the Torah and Muhammed (pbuh) didn't change the story line. We know this because God Himself said that in the Holy Qur'an. Look at this what God says about Ishmael. Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. Again re-read the Torah to find the hatred directed towards Hajjer and Ishmael. After God had promised Ibrahim (pbuh) that his son Ishmael (pbuh) would be the leader of a great nation, why would Ismael (pbuh) and his mother be portrayed as thus? Genesis 16:4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes. Genesis 16:8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. Genesis 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking. Genesis 21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. God had ordered Ibrahim (pbuh) to take Hajjer and Ishmael (pbuh) into the wilderness as another test, they were then taken to a valley near Mecca where the community of Ishmael (pbuh) grew with God's blessing. You still haven’t shown me where the “Jews” started this. However I can show you where Ishmael started the hatred and persecution of Isaac. Geneses 21:9, 10 And Sarah kept noticing the son of Ha′gar the Egyptian,+ whom she had borne to Abraham, poking fun.+ ¹⁰ So she began to say to Abraham: “Drive out this slave girl and her son, for the son of this slave girl is not going to be an heir with my son, with Isaac!”+ You see that! Ishmael was not going to be an heir with her son Isaac because of this fowl play See above. No offense but the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob says that he does not want to get mixed up with these pagan god’s. It does matter since this is what God said! Who are you or anyone to say what they should or should not call God? Can your friends call you anything they want too, it’s that simple. What are you talking about?
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 28 July 2012 at 11:30am
	*Originally posted by Usmani* Gretings Usmani, Do you believe in false prophets? Caringheart
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Mahdi The Seeke Male Senior Member Joined: 28 July 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 253	Posted: 02 August 2012 at 9:58pm
	The Psalms were chanted?
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Caringheart Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1311	Posted: 03 August 2012 at 4:08pm
	*Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke* The Psalms were chanted? Yes. It is why the Catholic church has the tradition of chanting in its services, and I suspect why many other cultures do it as well. It is the ancient Hebrew way. David wrote most of the Psalms, which are hymns, or songs, sung to God. It is prayer in song.
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