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Groups Men (Brothers)
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Jenni
 
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Quote Jenni Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2005 at 1:28pm
brother 123 your true feeling about your dislike for women has come out. And by the way read what islamiccity's q&a says about the hadith there are more women than men in hell, and how this hadith is abused. By the way many men like being married to someone who is there equal when it comes to intelligence and education. Maybe you want someone who's only skill is cooking and cleaning and that is fine for you and fine for the woman if she is happy, but it is not for everyone and you can't change that. I think you are really a control freak and can't stand the fact that you can't turn every muslim man and woman into the kind you think they sould be. So sad for you...
You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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Lameese
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Quote Lameese Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2005 at 3:05pm

Jenni,

I think you were right when you said just to ignore him. My husband says that this person is either 12-14 years old or is very young and has certianly never been married.

And I agree with you about some men wanting to be married to someone that is their equal. It says in the Qur'an to marry someone that is basically educated because this is who will teach your children. Of course our Brother here leaves out the part of Islam he chooses to forget. When my husband and I married, he said that he loved me because I have a strong mind and personality. He also said he did not want to marry someone that could not hold her own opinion but had to ask him how do do everything, incuding how to think. He said for him, that would be like having a child.

I think Borther chooses to forget that Islam freed women and gave them rights. The way Brother translates everything is that a woman is the "dog" and needs to just be there to obey. Sad for him and even worse for his future wife.........

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Brother123
 
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Quote Brother123 Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2005 at 4:43pm

jenni I dont have dislike for women. But you sure have dislike for the Sunnah of the Prophet peace be upon him.

Well Leemse  your husband obviously doesnt how how to raise a family  and coulnt come out with an argument  as he knows your beaten.

We give men and women the rights that Allah gave them not some made up femanist rights.

And i have seen the fate of husbands like yours who will make even the haram as halal for their semi-convert wife. Who enters the deen looking for something else not teh actual deen.

Then she leaves him and takes the kids and reverts ack to kufr because she never enter completly into Islam just took the bits she liked and twisted the bits she didnt like of islam.

This is what happned to a brother whose wife had same views to yours as to what she wanted Islam to be like not what islam is.

Kicked him out of his hope, kept the kids, took of her hijab and Allahu alim if shes Muslim or not.  Lost his imaan  for her, now lost his kids too. InshaAllah your husband can enjoy the same fate for changing Islam to make  U  happy.

Just a matter of time when you turn on your heals. No matter how much your husband or islamicity change islam for you. It will not be enough,

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kim!
 
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Quote kim! Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2005 at 3:21am
Being married at 14 was ok back in the days when there was no real childhood and the average lifespan was 30.

In Australia, the average lifespan is about 80 - marrying at 14 is, therefore, WRONG.

--------

My version of feminism can be summed up in one word: CHOICE.

Women (and men) can choose to work.
Women (and men) can choose to stay at home.
Women (and men) can choose their religion and follow its rules the way they see fit...which requires: EDUCATION.

Women (and men) should ALL be educated as much as possible. (with the CHOICE to study as much about ANYTHING as they want. Not just be TOLD what to learn)

Women can choose to wear hijab.
Women can choose to not wear makeup.
Women can choose to appear in public.
Woman can choose to wear whatever they want.

And men can choose to be non-violent.
Men can choose to try not to control everything and everyone.

Else they can choose to be punished.

Kim...
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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2005 at 8:31am

Brother123, if I had not been educated and able to work, my husband and I would not have anything.  My husband, our main bread winner, was hurt at work.  For 3 months, I carried the 6' 300lb man up and down a flight of stairs to go to the bathroom and bathe.  I worked 40+ hours, rushed home over my lunches to make sure he was okay and then returned to work.  I came home exhausted and took care of him.  I paid the bills, cleaned the house, drove him to the doctor.  Even now, without my income we could not survive.  It is not a matter of obedience vs disobedience.  Or even feminism.  It is a matter of survival of many families.  Part of the reason there is so much poverty in foreign countries is the lack of women able to contribute to the economy.  In Afganistan, if a woman lost her husband under the Taliban, her only choice was to leave her house and go beg for charity.  Or send her children off to work.

Also, as for the 14 year old question.  I worked in a facility that treated victims of abuse, male and female.  Girls at 14, and I stress girls, have not matured mentally, emotionally or physically by the age of 14.  Getting pregnant and giving birth is just dangerous for a girl of that age.  Infant and mother mortality is much higher.  Also, she is not capable of dealing with the emotional stress, nor has she developed her own identity and therefore is hindered in the ability to encourage the development of her children.

But, who are you suggesting she marry?  An equally immature young boy of 16?  Or an adult man of 30?  If its the latter, then that creates many more problems as there is a stark difference in development levels.  A muslim man is to not harm his wife and only take her in righteousness.  How can he say he is doing that if by being with her physically, he puts her life and health in danger?  Or even her emotional and mental well being?  And if you think she should marry the 16 year old?  Then how is he mature enough to establish a strong household in faith and earn the kind of living to support his wife and children?  There are far more issues to think about that, the longer you wait the more likely sin happens.  In my own church, the girls do not have sex before marriage and they marry at around 18-22.  They are educated and dedicated mothers and wives.  It is not the length of time, but the time put in by the parents that matters in a young woman deciding not to destroy her life with premarital relations and drugs and alcohol. 

Besides, the advantages of an educated mother far outway a mother with no education.  She can help her children with their homework, read them the Quran, teach them about history and science.  She can vote for leaders that will continue to make the world a better place and she can have a chance if fate takes her husband from her. 

Perhaps if you're mother had been more educated, you would be in a better position to understand the world around you.

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Lameese
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Quote Lameese Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2005 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Brother123

jenni I dont have dislike for women. But you sure have dislike for the Sunnah of the Prophet peace be upon him.

Well Leemse  your husband obviously doesnt how how to raise a family  and coulnt come out with an argument  as he knows your beaten.

We give men and women the rights that Allah gave them not some made up femanist rights.

And i have seen the fate of husbands like yours who will make even the haram as halal for their semi-convert wife. Who enters the deen looking for something else not teh actual deen.

Then she leaves him and takes the kids and reverts ack to kufr because she never enter completly into Islam just took the bits she liked and twisted the bits she didnt like of islam.

This is what happned to a brother whose wife had same views to yours as to what she wanted Islam to be like not what islam is.

Kicked him out of his hope, kept the kids, took of her hijab and Allahu alim if shes Muslim or not.  Lost his imaan  for her, now lost his kids too. InshaAllah your husband can enjoy the same fate for changing Islam to make  U  happy.

Just a matter of time when you turn on your heals. No matter how much your husband or islamicity change islam for you. It will not be enough,

 

Number one do not call me a revert again! Number too my husband is highly educated and so was his mother, and so is mine. Thank God!  You want to use the Qur'an for your purposes to spead your version in Islam. Women have rights in Islam wether you think they should or not! Also, you are all into culture and yourself until I think you are majnoon!

I do believe you have a dislike for women and I do feel sorry for whoever marries you. It seems to me that you are not even educated and do not care to be.  Insha Allah, you change your ways before your own ego eats you alive.

And for your information, I also carried this household for 2 years and did it alone.  Maybe your friend was like you, uneducated and refusing to let his wife have her Islamic rights. Maybe that is why he lost everything! Maybe it was him that did not follow Qur'an.

Kim you are right!  Choice is what makes your rights! With this child, he does not believe a woman should have a choice. He will have to answer for a lot on the day of judgement!

 

Lameese

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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2005 at 11:15am

Kim I agreed all what you've said until you said this:

>>Woman can choose to wear whatever they want.<<

If God has decreed in the Qur'an that a woman must appear modestyly wearing clothing that reveals her curveture i.e bathing suit, short skirt etc is definitely prohibited. The reason? It is not oppression but protection of hereself and those who are in her presence. If a woman wears skimpy clothing in a house of worship and especially if she is prostrating what others "may see maybe inappropriate. I assume this applies to not just Muslims but to Jews and Christian faiths as well as others as well. There is no "whatever you want stuff" not even for men. So Kim with all you've said I agree except for this one.

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Brother123
 
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Quote Brother123 Replybullet Posted: 29 September 2005 at 4:54am

Angela .Did i say women cant work or be educated or is it your femanist anger towrds men and some islamic principles that makes you speak without common sense.

Do you think you are a prophetess or soemthing ?

Prophet saw even married young and old women and the sahabah were encouraged to marrying younger females.

This is the problem with some convert sisters they speak about islam without knowledge and condem islamic values.

When you critise things i may have said (as you attribute things to me which i havent said. thus lying doesnt seem to be a problem with your moral values) you are critsinsg thinsg atht are islamic and you are critising  and insulting the prophet.

lameese so what if your husband is highly educared or his mommy or u. many of the great scientists did not ahve common sense. How many of them did istinja. How many made sure tehir clotsh were free of urine. Educataion does not mean you have common sense or know what is right and what is wrong. As is shown in cases of Eistein , plato and others  and their education level was far greater than yours.

The Prophet could not read or write. Some ones secular  education does not make him know what is good or bad. Infact as it shows in ur case it is used for purposes of showing of and in your cases harams you because makes you feel superior and arrogent and commit minor shirk.

WIth all your education and your husbands you could not even win and argument  small Muslim child or even some one who does not have an education. I do have a science degree but science degree doesnt amke me know what is right and wrong . Its my knowledge of Quran and SUnnah that tells me what is wright and wrong.

Soem of my friends could not pass their high school no matter how many times they tried. Yet they have more common sence than my professors at university who reject Islam.

And it make sthem better human beings than these professors because they believe in the one who created them.

Clearly shows you 3 sisters judge what is wright and wrong from a  un- Islamic perspective and you wnat to seek attention through how much secular schooling you have had.

You will be asked if what you said was in accordance with Islam or against islam. Many of the things you 3 have said are the opposite of what the Prophet said. And seems every day you seem dig your self deeper into heresy.

www.shariahway.com

 

 

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