IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Pork is forbidden in Islam and Christianity.

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Reepicheep

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Joined: 06 November 2006
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Posted: 08 June 2012 at 7:59am

Honeto, you say you believe that eating pork is a relatively minor sin in Islam because, using your terminology, it causes only moral hurt. From what I've been able to determine, every muslim scholar without exception (past and present) agrees that there is no earthly punishment for a muslim who eats pork, so certainly it can be said that muslims believe that eating pork is a sin which is strictly between muslims and God, and will be dealt with in the afterlife.

But, honeto, where you go off track is when you claim that muslims believe that incest, too, is a relatively minor sin because it, too, causes only moral hurt.

Let's use the example of your father raping your daughter. If a pregnancy resulted, your daughter would most likely give birth to a horribly deformed baby that would die shortly after birth or, at a minimum, suffer severe mental and physical health problems.

How can you claim that the rape of your daughter and subsequent pregnancy are a minor moral hurt which, like eating pork, should not be punished by earthly courts???

By the way, muslim scholars don't agree with you. In fact, they argue the opposite and say that rape should be punished more severely if the victim is a relative of the rapist. So, who is correct, you or the muslim scholars?

Edited by Reepicheep - 08 June 2012 at 8:02am

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honeto

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Posted: 09 June 2012 at 5:24pm

Reep i cheep,
I see your problem. You are not reading neither my answers nor your own posts, at least that's the impression I get. Are you afraid of the reality? is it true that you were a bast-- child like more than 40% of your fellow countryman? were you born out of wedlock to your mother? what place you have in front of Christian church according to the Bible?
God loves you and I believe you should not pay for what your parents did, don't you agree? Why you and your several generations are to be outcasts and not enter even the church?
please remember God loves you, if you did not choose to be a bast-- kid, you don't have to pay.
love you,
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 09 June 2012 at 5:28pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 09 June 2012 at 9:20pm

honeto wrote: is it true that you were a bast-- child like more than 40% of your fellow countryman?

I'm curious, which country do you claim I live in?

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honeto

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Posted: 11 June 2012 at 1:40pm

In 2003 it stood at 42% in the US. It is probably over 50% now here in the US, most Western countries are pretty close, some a bit less, some more. I thought you live in US, but that was jsut a guess. I live here in US but I was not born here. It is possible you live in Saudi Arabia, but you were born in a Western country?

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 11 June 2012 at 1:42pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Reepicheep

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Posted: 11 June 2012 at 2:18pm

honeto wrote: is it true that you were a bast-- child like more than 40% of your fellow countryman? were you born out of wedlock to your mother?

honeto also wrote: I thought you live in US, but that was just a guess. I live here in US

The reason I ask where you think I live is that you made some very serious accusations about my mother. Since I have never talked about her, I assume you know nothing about her, correct? You don't know if she is Christian or Muslim, you don't know if she lives in Saudi Arabia or Germany, you don't know if she is alive or dead, etc. For all you know, she is a direct descendant of Mohammad and one of the most pure women who ever lived, but since you thought she was a US citizen, that was sufficient justification for you to insult her and to make very serious accusations about her character. Correct?

For now, I will neither confirm nor deny that my mother and I are US citizens. The important issue, from your point of view, is that since you thought she is American, by insulting her you were perfoming a righteous act for which you will be richly rewarded on the day of judgement. Correct?

But that leads to several interesting questions. You seem to think that it is a righteous act for a devout muslim like yourself to say unspeakably vile, sick, things about any mothers (including, presumably, muslim mothers) who happen to have US citizenship. What is the Islamic basis for your belief that insulting American mothers is a righteous act? Can you provide us with any hadith or passages from the koran that prove this is a righteous act?

**************

It is interesting to compare the Sunni and Shia beliefs RE: whether Allah is pleased when muslims insult mothers. About a month ago, on the SHIACHAT forum, a shia muslim poster who insulted another poster's mother received an immediate lifetime ban from the website, even though he had been posting on SHIACHAT for years and was one of their most active members. (incidently, the muslim whose mother was being insulted was a Sunni; I was pleased that the Shia moderators did what was right and sided with the Sunni muslim instead of the Shia muslim).

On Islamicity, which is a Sunni site, there is apparently no punishment for posters who insult mothers. I wonder why Shia muslims respect mothers, while Sunni muslims apparently don't.

Edited by Reepicheep - 11 June 2012 at 4:09pm

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honeto

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Posted: 13 June 2012 at 4:37pm

Reepicheep,

you point finger at others and forget to see your own acts. Go back and read what you first wrote about my deceased fahter, and my innocent little daughters. I know it only hurts when someone else do it to you. When you do it to others its alright and fun, you thought.

And I realize I was wrong for what I did in response to first you saying unspeakable, sick things about my father who you did not know has passed away many many years ago, and never saw my kids about whom you said unpeakable and sick things without knowing them. That was a shame, and if you forgot, you wrote that first before I came up with what I admit was wrong. I was uncomfortable to write, but it was in response to your insults against my innocent daughers and deceased father.

I regret that I fell into your trap or lowering myself to your level in saying what I said.

The data that I provided was true, only my assumption about your mother was not, for which I ask Allah's forgiveness. And I ask Allah's help to not fall into traps of Satan again.

As far as the subject, according to the Bible and Quran, pork, like many other things and acts is Haram/forbidden to eat or touch for a believer.

I don't see anyone taking the issue of children out of wedlock as insulting here in the West. Almost everyone sleep around before getting married save a few. Many people have multiple partners sometimes while married. A child out of wedlock has become as normal as pink color for man.

What I am saying is that all of that is against the teachings of the Bible that these people believe in. The Bible has called such children (who are born out fo wedlock) as illegitmate and that they should not be allowed in congregation for so many generations. That is not my verdict, the Bible said that.

Hasan

Edited by honeto - 13 June 2012 at 5:00pm

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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honeto

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Posts: 2340

Posted: 13 June 2012 at 5:02pm

Originally posted by Reepicheep

Honeto, you say you believe that eating pork is a relatively minor sin in Islam because, using your terminology, it causes only moral hurt. From what I've been able to determine, every muslim scholar without exception (past and present) agrees that there is no earthly punishment for a muslim who eats pork, so certainly it can be said that muslims believe that eating pork is a sin which is strictly between muslims and God, and will be dealt with in the afterlife.

But, honeto, where you go off track is when you claim that muslims believe that incest, too, is a relatively minor sin because it, too, causes only moral hurt.

How can you claim that the rape of your daughter and subsequent pregnancy are a minor moral hurt which, like eating pork, should not be punished by earthly courts???

Reepecheep,

read what you wrote, what a shame, do you see it?

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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Matt Browne
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Joined: 19 April 2010
Location: Germany
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Posted: 16 June 2012 at 6:49am

Hasan, would Jesus have called children born out of wedlock as illegitimate? Instead Jesus said: "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s. (Mark 12:17) Unlike Judaism and Islam, Christianity is not a religion of the law. Jesus lay the foundation for the modern secular principle: laws are made by people for the people. Members of parliaments who are Christians can have opinions and influence the law-making process, but their view is only one view of several. Today children born out of wedlock are not seen as illegitimate. The main reason is that this hurts the feelings of the child. Jesus wants us to obey "Caesar's laws". Today Caesar stands for elected representatives.

Edited by Matt Browne - 16 June 2012 at 6:50am

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt

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Topic: Pork is forbidden in Islam and Christianity.
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Author	Message
Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 08 June 2012 at 7:59am
	Honeto, you say you believe that eating pork is a relatively minor sin in Islam because, using your terminology, it causes only moral hurt. From what I've been able to determine, every muslim scholar without exception (past and present) agrees that there is no earthly punishment for a muslim who eats pork, so certainly it can be said that muslims believe that eating pork is a sin which is strictly between muslims and God, and will be dealt with in the afterlife. But, honeto, where you go off track is when you claim that muslims believe that incest, too, is a relatively minor sin because it, too, causes only moral hurt. Let's use the example of your father raping your daughter. If a pregnancy resulted, your daughter would most likely give birth to a horribly deformed baby that would die shortly after birth or, at a minimum, suffer severe mental and physical health problems. How can you claim that the rape of your daughter and subsequent pregnancy are a minor moral hurt which, like eating pork, should not be punished by earthly courts??? By the way, muslim scholars don't agree with you. In fact, they argue the opposite and say that rape should be punished more severely if the victim is a relative of the rapist. So, who is correct, you or the muslim scholars? Edited by Reepicheep - 08 June 2012 at 8:02am
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 09 June 2012 at 5:24pm
	Reep i cheep, I see your problem. You are not reading neither my answers nor your own posts, at least that's the impression I get. Are you afraid of the reality? is it true that you were a bast-- child like more than 40% of your fellow countryman? were you born out of wedlock to your mother? what place you have in front of Christian church according to the Bible? God loves you and I believe you should not pay for what your parents did, don't you agree? Why you and your several generations are to be outcasts and not enter even the church? please remember God loves you, if you did not choose to be a bast-- kid, you don't have to pay. love you, Hasan Edited by honeto - 09 June 2012 at 5:28pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 09 June 2012 at 9:20pm
	honeto wrote: is it true that you were a bast-- child like more than 40% of your fellow countryman? I'm curious, which country do you claim I live in?
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 11 June 2012 at 1:40pm
	In 2003 it stood at 42% in the US. It is probably over 50% now here in the US, most Western countries are pretty close, some a bit less, some more. I thought you live in US, but that was jsut a guess. I live here in US but I was not born here. It is possible you live in Saudi Arabia, but you were born in a Western country? Hasan Edited by honeto - 11 June 2012 at 1:42pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
	IP Logged

Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 11 June 2012 at 2:18pm
	honeto wrote: is it true that you were a bast-- child like more than 40% of your fellow countryman? were you born out of wedlock to your mother? honeto also wrote: I thought you live in US, but that was just a guess. I live here in US The reason I ask where you think I live is that you made some very serious accusations about my mother. Since I have never talked about her, I assume you know nothing about her, correct? You don't know if she is Christian or Muslim, you don't know if she lives in Saudi Arabia or Germany, you don't know if she is alive or dead, etc. For all you know, she is a direct descendant of Mohammad and one of the most pure women who ever lived, but since you thought she was a US citizen, that was sufficient justification for you to insult her and to make very serious accusations about her character. Correct? For now, I will neither confirm nor deny that my mother and I are US citizens. The important issue, from your point of view, is that since you thought she is American, by insulting her you were perfoming a righteous act for which you will be richly rewarded on the day of judgement. Correct? But that leads to several interesting questions. You seem to think that it is a righteous act for a devout muslim like yourself to say unspeakably vile, sick, things about any mothers (including, presumably, muslim mothers) who happen to have US citizenship. What is the Islamic basis for your belief that insulting American mothers is a righteous act? Can you provide us with any hadith or passages from the koran that prove this is a righteous act? ************** It is interesting to compare the Sunni and Shia beliefs RE: whether Allah is pleased when muslims insult mothers. About a month ago, on the SHIACHAT forum, a shia muslim poster who insulted another poster's mother received an immediate lifetime ban from the website, even though he had been posting on SHIACHAT for years and was one of their most active members. (incidently, the muslim whose mother was being insulted was a Sunni; I was pleased that the Shia moderators did what was right and sided with the Sunni muslim instead of the Shia muslim). On Islamicity, which is a Sunni site, there is apparently no punishment for posters who insult mothers. I wonder why Shia muslims respect mothers, while Sunni muslims apparently don't. Edited by Reepicheep - 11 June 2012 at 4:09pm
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 13 June 2012 at 4:37pm
	Reepicheep, you point finger at others and forget to see your own acts. Go back and read what you first wrote about my deceased fahter, and my innocent little daughters. I know it only hurts when someone else do it to you. When you do it to others its alright and fun, you thought. And I realize I was wrong for what I did in response to first you saying unspeakable, sick things about my father who you did not know has passed away many many years ago, and never saw my kids about whom you said unpeakable and sick things without knowing them. That was a shame, and if you forgot, you wrote that first before I came up with what I admit was wrong. I was uncomfortable to write, but it was in response to your insults against my innocent daughers and deceased father. I regret that I fell into your trap or lowering myself to your level in saying what I said. The data that I provided was true, only my assumption about your mother was not, for which I ask Allah's forgiveness. And I ask Allah's help to not fall into traps of Satan again. As far as the subject, according to the Bible and Quran, pork, like many other things and acts is Haram/forbidden to eat or touch for a believer. I don't see anyone taking the issue of children out of wedlock as insulting here in the West. Almost everyone sleep around before getting married save a few. Many people have multiple partners sometimes while married. A child out of wedlock has become as normal as pink color for man. What I am saying is that all of that is against the teachings of the Bible that these people believe in. The Bible has called such children (who are born out fo wedlock) as illegitmate and that they should not be allowed in congregation for so many generations. That is not my verdict, the Bible said that. Hasan Edited by honeto - 13 June 2012 at 5:00pm
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 13 June 2012 at 5:02pm
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* Honeto, you say you believe that eating pork is a relatively minor sin in Islam because, using your terminology, it causes only moral hurt. From what I've been able to determine, every muslim scholar without exception (past and present) agrees that there is no earthly punishment for a muslim who eats pork, so certainly it can be said that muslims believe that eating pork is a sin which is strictly between muslims and God, and will be dealt with in the afterlife. But, honeto, where you go off track is when you claim that muslims believe that incest, too, is a relatively minor sin because it, too, causes only moral hurt. Let's use the example of your father raping your daughter. If a pregnancy resulted, your daughter would most likely give birth to a horribly deformed baby that would die shortly after birth or, at a minimum, suffer severe mental and physical health problems. How can you claim that the rape of your daughter and subsequent pregnancy are a minor moral hurt which, like eating pork, should not be punished by earthly courts??? By the way, muslim scholars don't agree with you. In fact, they argue the opposite and say that rape should be punished more severely if the victim is a relative of the rapist. So, who is correct, you or the muslim scholars? Reepecheep, read what you wrote, what a shame, do you see it? Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Matt Browne Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 19 April 2010 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 773	Posted: 16 June 2012 at 6:49am
	Hasan, would Jesus have called children born out of wedlock as illegitimate? Instead Jesus said: "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s. (Mark 12:17) Unlike Judaism and Islam, Christianity is not a religion of the law. Jesus lay the foundation for the modern secular principle: laws are made by people for the people. Members of parliaments who are Christians can have opinions and influence the law-making process, but their view is only one view of several. Today children born out of wedlock are not seen as illegitimate. The main reason is that this hurts the feelings of the child. Jesus wants us to obey "Caesar's laws". Today Caesar stands for elected representatives. Edited by Matt Browne - 16 June 2012 at 6:50am
	A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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