IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Pork is forbidden in Islam and Christianity.

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Originally posted by honeto

Originally posted by schmikbob

And I will say, once again, that the comparison is ridiculous and patently one with an agenda.  I can think of hundreds of things that affect only myself and nobody else.  Incest is certainly not one of them.  

Anyone can frequently justify horrendous acts with faulty logic or religious zeal.  Your attempt to point a finger at those of us without religious ethics and say we might do this or that is fallacious.  Ethics and morals don't have to be related to religion and I believe they are in fact an adaptation of our species. 

Schmikbob,
It may seem that way to you, since you and those like you are without knowledge, such as simple as that you have a maker, what else can be expected of you? 
As far as my comparison not making sense to you, it is simply a result of that fact, the lack of that basic knowledge. If you cannot come to realize that your well designed and functional body has a maker. If you don't acknowledge basic facts of your existance, of what use is any scholarship?
As far as those of us who acknowledge our maker, believe that it is our maker who runs everything that He has created, we believe that certain things He has made unlawful for us to do like eating pork, taking life except through the way of justice, stealing, gambling, and incest. All dos go on one side, all don'ts go on the other. 
What I am trying to say is that both Bible and Quran forbid the eating of pigs, declaring it unclean, period. 
Hasan 

There is something arrogant about people who claim superior knowledge and so look down on others. Do you really think that only you know anything? Let's take having up to four wives, what superior knowledge gets you there or in many parts of the Muslim world there are child brides (Yemen for instance), where does that superior knowledge come from - period.

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bunter Male Senior Member Joined: 28 March 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 123	Posted: 28 May 2012 at 2:03am
	*Originally posted by honeto* *Originally posted by schmikbob* And I will say, once again, that the comparison is ridiculous and patently one with an agenda. I can think of hundreds of things that affect only myself and nobody else. Incest is certainly not one of them. Anyone can frequently justify horrendous acts with faulty logic or religious zeal. Your attempt to point a finger at those of us without religious ethics and say we might do this or that is fallacious. Ethics and morals don't have to be related to religion and I believe they are in fact an adaptation of our species. Schmikbob, It may seem that way to you, since you and those like you are without knowledge, such as simple as that you have a maker, what else can be expected of you? As far as my comparison not making sense to you, it is simply a result of that fact, the lack of that basic knowledge. If you cannot come to realize that your well designed and functional body has a maker. If you don't acknowledge basic facts of your existance, of what use is any scholarship? As far as those of us who acknowledge our maker, believe that it is our maker who runs everything that He has created, we believe that certain things He has made unlawful for us to do like eating pork, taking life except through the way of justice, stealing, gambling, and incest. All dos go on one side, all don'ts go on the other. What I am trying to say is that both Bible and Quran forbid the eating of pigs, declaring it unclean, period. Hasan There is something arrogant about people who claim superior knowledge and so look down on others. Do you really think that only you know anything? Let's take having up to four wives, what superior knowledge gets you there or in many parts of the Muslim world there are child brides (Yemen for instance), where does that superior knowledge come from - period.
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 28 May 2012 at 7:58am
	Honeto, I wish to explore your claim that there is no difference in Islamic Law between eating pork and engaging in incest. Let's assume you have two daughters. You discover that one of your daughters had been raped by your father, and that the other daughter had eaten a 3 oz. portion of pork tenderloin. (1) which would anger you more, the fact that daughter #1 was raped by your father, or that daughter #2 had eaten a portion of pork tenderloin? (2) what punishment, if any, does Islamic law inflict upon your daughters and father for the acts of rape and eating pork? Edited by Reepicheep - 28 May 2012 at 7:59am
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schmikbob Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 27 June 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 422	Posted: 28 May 2012 at 8:08am
	The existence of God is not knowledge. It is a belief. Most do not know the difference.
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iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 28 May 2012 at 1:43pm
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* It's sad how muslims keep regurgitating the same lies and half truths which supposedly scientifically "prove" that pork is unhealthier than other types of meat. For example, lets look at the cholesterol levels of various meats. 3.5 oz portions of the following meats contain the indicated number of milligrams of cholesterol: 106 mg - lamb (foreshank) 94 mg - beef short ribs 85 mg - skinless chicken 63 mg - salmon 53 mg - ham Obviously, if (as iec786 claims) Allah bans the eating of ham because of ham's high cholesterol content, then shouldn't Allah also ban the consumption of lamb, beef, chicken, and salmon for the exact same reason??? All the other reasons presented in iec786's post can likewise be just as easily refuted. I beg to differ with you on some of these figures. Beef The amounts of cholesterol in mgs for various cuts of beef are: rib roast, 40-72; eye of round, 52-62; sirloin, 64-77; chuck roast, 66-87; ground beef, 74; bottom round, 75-81; canned corned beef, 80 Chicken While technically poultry, chicken meat is eaten by most Americans on a regular basis. Chicken breast has 73 mgs of cholesterol per serving if roasted Lamb Leg of lamb has 65 to 78 mgs of cholesterol per serving. Lamb chops have 59 to 78 mgs of cholesterol per serving, while roasted ribs have 50 to 77 mgs of cholesterol per serving. Pork loin chops have 71 to 92 mgs of cholesterol per serving depending on how much fat has been trimmed away and how they are prepared. Ground venison has 83 mgs of cholesterol per serving. Broiled venison tenderloin has 75 grams of cholesterol per serving. The swine remains the worst.Let us not forget it is the most filthy animal.
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 29 May 2012 at 6:00am
	OK, iec786, we'll use your source. The website you did your "cut and paste" from also contains the following sentences: *Ham luncheon meat has even less, at 21 to 32 mgs of cholesterol per serving. Bacon has 16 mgs of cholesterol per serving and Canadian bacon has 27 mgs per serving.* You claim to know the mind of Allah; i.e., you claim to know the reasons Allah has banned the eating of pork. One reason you give is that pork is high in cholesterol. Using the figures from your source, lamb chops have 59 to 78 mgs of cholesterol per serving, and bacon has 16 mgs of cholesterol per serving. Since you claim to know the mind of Allah, then please explain to us why he allows the eating of lamb chops when they contain approximately four times the cholesterol of bacon.
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 29 May 2012 at 2:11pm
	*Originally posted by Reepicheep* Honeto, I wish to explore your claim that there is no difference in Islamic Law between eating pork and engaging in incest. Let's assume you have two daughters. You discover that one of your daughters had been raped by your father, and that the other daughter had eaten a 3 oz. portion of pork tenderloin. (1) which would anger you more, the fact that daughter #1 was raped by your father, or that daughter #2 had eaten a portion of pork tenderloin? (2) what punishment, if any, does Islamic law inflict upon your daughters and father for the acts of rape and eating pork? Reepicheep, I think there is a problem in your head and I have no solution to it. I never said that there is no difference in Islamic law between eating pork and incest. What you refuse to let your brain aborb is the fact that both are said to be haram as a teaching. Unlike what my Christian friends who try to tell me that "wages of every sin is death", in Islam every sin has a punishment that equals the act. And God will in the end will serve the absolute Justice, even each and every word you utter, every act you do and every intention you entertained. I am not an expert on the Islamic law, so I am unable to declare anything on the scenario you presented. I know that if the same happened in your family, with you, your daughters and your father, according to your Christian belief, " Jesus has died for your sins theory" no punsihement even if you or your father does it with your daughters? Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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schmikbob Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 27 June 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 422	Posted: 29 May 2012 at 3:49pm
	Let's get off the cholesterol idiocy. Different meats have differing levels of cholesterol depending on a variety of factors including but not limited to how they are prepared and the amount of fat that is trimmed off. A debate over whether pork is the unhealthiest of meats in some sort of religious discussion is ridiculous.
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Reepicheep Senior Member Joined: 06 November 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 235	Posted: 30 May 2012 at 6:23am
	honeto wrote: I am not an expert on the Islamic law, so I am unable to declare anything on the scenario you presented. That's an interesting position for you to take. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that since you have no idea whether incest and eating pork are allowed under Islamic law, you refuse to condemn either of these acts, or give an opinion on whether incest or eating pork are wrong. But, if, as you claim, it is not against Islamic law for a devout muslim such as yourself to engage in incest or eat pork, then what is the basis of your belief that eating pork is wrong??? You are contradicting yourself, honeto. Do you, or do you not, believe that it is wrong for a muslim male to rape his daughters, grand-daughters, and other female blood relatives? Do you, or do you not, believe that it is wrong for a muslim to eat pork? We'll get nowhere in this discussion if you keep changing your mind about what you believe. Edited by Reepicheep - 30 May 2012 at 2:47pm
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