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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Pork is forbidden in Islam and Christianity. Post Reply Post New Topic
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2012 at 8:50pm
Schmikbob,
I know, I myself felt uncomfortable using the comparison, but I coud not think of another to show, just like you say, eating pork did not give you any harm, another person who does not follow any religion or religious ethics might say that being in an incestuous relationship did not cause them any harm thus justifying their practice of it.
If it is not your book (the Bible), I meant to whom it may concern, after all the topic is "Pork is forbidden in Islam and Christianity"
Hasan
 
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 7:03am
And I will say, once again, that the comparison is ridiculous and patently one with an agenda.  I can think of hundreds of things that affect only myself and nobody else.  Incest is certainly not one of them. 
Anyone can frequently justify horrendous acts with faulty logic or religious zeal.  Your attempt to point a finger at those of us without religious ethics and say we might do this or that is fallacious.  Ethics and morals don't have to be related to religion and I believe they are in fact an adaptation of our species. 
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Reepicheep
 
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Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2012 at 1:14pm
schmikbob wrote: that the comparison is ridiculous and patently one with an agenda. I can think of hundreds of things that affect only myself and nobody else. Incest is certainly not one of them.
 
This reminds me of a similar discussion I had a couple of years ago, with a muslim on www.shiachat.com .  In that discussion, the muslim equated eating pork with men engaging in homosexual sex.  It appears that Honeto isn't the only muslim whose logical processes are, shall we say, kind of bizarre.
 
If the very best arguments muslim scholars can give against eating pork is that it is no different from incest and homosexuality, then the state of muslim scholarship is very bleak indeed... 


Edited by Reepicheep - 24 May 2012 at 9:11pm
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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 24 May 2012 at 11:12pm
PORK AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HEALTH

He has only forbidden you carrion, blood and pork and what has been consecrated to other than Allah. But anyone who is forced to eat it-without desiring it or going to excess in it-commits no crime. Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Qur'an, 2:173)


Eating pork is harmful to health in a great many regards. This harm still persists today, despite all the precautions that are taken. First and foremost, no matter how clean the farms and environments on which it is raised may be, the pig is not by nature a clean-living animal. It often plays in, and even eats, its own excrement. Due to this and its biological structure, the pig produces much higher levels of antibodies in its body than other animals. In addition, far higher levels of growth hormone are produced in the pig compared to those in other animals and human beings. Naturally, these high levels of antibodies and growth hormone pass across to and collect in the pig's muscle tissue. Pork meat also contains high levels of cholesterol and lipids. It has been scientifically proven that these significant amounts of antibodies, hormones, cholesterol and lipids in pork represent a serious threat to human health.

The existence of above-average numbers of obese individuals in the populations of countries such as the USA and Germany, in which large quantities of pork are consumed, is now well-known. When exposed to excessive quantities of growth hormone as a result of a pork-based diet, the human body first puts on excessive weight and then suffers physical deformations.

Another harmful substance in pork is the "trichina" worm. This is frequently found in pork and when it enters the human body, it settles directly in the muscles of the heart and represents a possibly fatal threat. Even though it is now technically possible to identify pigs that are infected with trichina, no such methods were known in earlier centuries. That means that everyone who ate pork risked infection by trichina and possible death.

All these reasons are just a part of the wisdom in our Lord's prohibition on the consumption of pork. Moreover, this commandment of our Lord's provides complete protection from the harmful effects of pork under any conditions.

Until the 20th century, it was impossible to be aware of the danger posed to human health by pork. The fact that the Qur'an, revealed fourteen centuries ago, warns against this harm which has been incontrovertibly revealed with modern medical equipment and biological tests, is one of the miracles demonstrating that the Qur'an is the revelation of Allah, the Omniscient. Despite all the precautionary measures and inspections that take place in modern-day pig rearing, the fact that pork is physiologically incompatible with the human body and is a variety of meat harmful to human health has not altered.
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bunter
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Quote bunter Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 8:31am
Originally posted by iec786

PORK AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HEALTH

Eating pork is harmful to health in a great many regards. This harm still persists today, despite all the precautions that are taken. First and foremost, no matter how clean the farms and environments on which it is raised may be, the pig is not by nature a clean-living animal. It often plays in, and even eats, its own excrement. Due to this and its biological structure, the pig produces much higher levels of antibodies in its body than other animals. In addition, far higher levels of growth hormone are produced in the pig compared to those in other animals and human beings. Naturally, these high levels of antibodies and growth hormone pass across to and collect in the pig's muscle tissue. Pork meat also contains high levels of cholesterol and lipids. It has been scientifically proven that these significant amounts of antibodies, hormones, cholesterol and lipids in pork represent a serious threat to human health.

The existence of above-average numbers of obese individuals in the populations of countries such as the USA and Germany, in which large quantities of pork are consumed, is now well-known. When exposed to excessive quantities of growth hormone as a result of a pork-based diet, the human body first puts on excessive weight and then suffers physical deformations.

Another harmful substance in pork is the "trichina" worm. This is frequently found in pork and when it enters the human body, it settles directly in the muscles of the heart and represents a possibly fatal threat. Even though it is now technically possible to identify pigs that are infected with trichina, no such methods were known in earlier centuries. That means that everyone who ate pork risked infection by trichina and possible death.

All these reasons are just a part of the wisdom in our Lord's prohibition on the consumption of pork. Moreover, this commandment of our Lord's provides complete protection from the harmful effects of pork under any conditions.

Until the 20th century, it was impossible to be aware of the danger posed to human health by pork. The fact that the Qur'an, revealed fourteen centuries ago, warns against this harm which has been incontrovertibly revealed with modern medical equipment and biological tests, is one of the miracles demonstrating that the Qur'an is the revelation of Allah, the Omniscient. Despite all the precautionary measures and inspections that take place in modern-day pig rearing, the fact that pork is physiologically incompatible with the human body and is a variety of meat harmful to human health has not altered.

Firstly, the Quran was only reporting this prohibition after the Bible and other cultures which were thousands of years older. Secondly, there are no citations here from medical journals or anywhere to support what you say. Meat from pigs is very versatile and can be bought in many, many ways. Indeed some forms are so sought after that people pay thousands of pounds for them - some Spanish hams for example. and it seems to me that if there was a serious health issue here modern governments would have banned it long ago. In some situations pigs are essential, for example in the New Forest in the UK they are used to eat up acorns which otherwise would be eaten by wild ponies for whom the acorn is poisonous. It is easy to see why the Jews banned in while moving through deserts and wasteland after leaving Egypt because there was no way to be sure pork was fully cooked. In developed countries billions of tons of pork are consumed every year but I am not aware of huge masses of people becoming sick.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 9:20am
Iec786, eating anything prepared incorrectly or in excess amounts is dangerous and can have negative affects.  Your statements are faith based and not reality based. 
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Reepicheep
 
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Quote Reepicheep Replybullet Posted: 27 May 2012 at 7:09am
It's sad how muslims keep regurgitating the same lies and half truths which supposedly scientifically "prove" that pork is unhealthier than other types of meat.
 
For example, lets look at the cholesterol levels of various meats.  3.5 oz portions of the following meats contain the indicated number of milligrams of cholesterol:
 
106 mg - lamb (foreshank)
94 mg - beef short ribs
85 mg - skinless chicken
63 mg - salmon
53 mg - ham
 
Obviously, if (as iec786 claims) Allah bans the eating of ham because of ham's high cholesterol content, then shouldn't Allah also ban the consumption of lamb, beef, chicken, and salmon for the exact same reason???
 
All the other reasons presented in iec786's post can likewise be just as easily refuted.
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 27 May 2012 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by schmikbob

And I will say, once again, that the comparison is ridiculous and patently one with an agenda.  I can think of hundreds of things that affect only myself and nobody else.  Incest is certainly not one of them. 
Anyone can frequently justify horrendous acts with faulty logic or religious zeal.  Your attempt to point a finger at those of us without religious ethics and say we might do this or that is fallacious.  Ethics and morals don't have to be related to religion and I believe they are in fact an adaptation of our species. 
 
Schmikbob,
It may seem that way to you, since you and those like you are without knowledge, such as simple as that you have a maker, what else can be expected of you?
As far as my comparison not making sense to you, it is simply a result of that fact, the lack of that basic knowledge. If you cannot come to realize that your well designed and functional body has a maker. If you don't acknowledge basic facts of your existance, of what use is any scholarship?
As far as those of us who acknowledge our maker, believe that it is our maker who runs everything that He has created, we believe that certain things He has made unlawful for us to do like eating pork, taking life except through the way of justice, stealing, gambling, and incest. All dos go on one side, all don'ts go on the other.
What I am trying to say is that both Bible and Quran forbid the eating of pigs, declaring it unclean, period. 
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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