IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Pork is forbidden in Islam and Christianity.

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iec786

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Joined: 06 February 2012
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Posts: 282

Posted: 05 May 2012 at 4:59am

CIRCUMCISION : A perpetual pact with God -
(a) "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy
money (your slaves), MUST needs be circumcised: and my
convenant shall be in your flesh for an EVERLASTING
convenant." GENESIS 17:13
(b) The uncircumcised to be "CUT OFF" (to be killed). GENESIS
17:14

New Living Translation (©2007)
Eight days later, when the baby was circumcised, he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel even before he was conceived.

very important look at this link
It has nothing to do with his heart.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CirconcisionRothenburg.jpg

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iec786

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Joined: 06 February 2012
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Posts: 282

Posted: 05 May 2012 at 5:03am

[QUOTE=schmikbob]

Actually, I don't see anywhere in bunter's post where he says anyone should "embrace the New Testament". Regardless of whether you think God told Moses to kill everyone that wasn't circumcised, I doubt that you advocate death for everyone that isn't circumcised.

[
/QUOTE]

If you understand his reply, the post you will not see it now i will show you what he meant.

This is from his post,

The point about all this is that growing a beard or being circumcised will not stop you sinning or make you a better person or improve society, but loving your neighbour as yourself will have a dramatic and good effect

This is what they are told in church.Do not worry about the circumcision just love all and you will be saved.Paul naild the Old Testament to the cross.

schmikbob,
I notice you are an agnostic,i am quite surprised that you went on to defend the Bible instead of talking about the swine ,do you find it ok to eat swine?

Edited by iec786 - 05 May 2012 at 5:10am

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bunter
Male
Senior Member

Joined: 28 March 2011
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Posts: 123

Posted: 06 May 2012 at 8:34am

Originally posted by iec786

CIRCUMCISION : A perpetual pact with God -
(a) "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy
money (your slaves), MUST needs be circumcised: and my
convenant shall be in your flesh for an EVERLASTING
convenant." GENESIS 17:13 (b) The uncircumcised to be "CUT OFF" (to be killed). GENESIS 17:14
New Living Translation (©2007) Eight days later, when the baby was circumcised, he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel even before he was conceived.very important look at this linkIt has nothing to do with his heart.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CirconcisionRothenburg.jpg

The uncircumcised - shall be cut off from his people - By being cut off some have imagined that a sudden temporal death was implied; but the simple meaning seems to be that such should have no right to nor share in the blessings of the covenant. One must remember that earlier verses in the same chapter make it plain that circumcision is a sign, a token of the covernant. The rite itself does not make a person holy or free from sin. One might also note that women were not circumcised but nevertheless are not therefore consigned to hell. We know God looks at the heart - unless you are going to argue that circumcision make you right with God. As I have said before, Abraham received God's promise long before hewas circumcised.

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schmikbob
Male Agnostic
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Joined: 27 June 2010
Location: United States
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Posts: 422

Posted: 06 May 2012 at 8:40am

iec786, you are in error. This is what I wrote "

Absolutely nowhere in here is a defense of the Bible. As for the eating of pork, yes, I love to eat pork. It's my favorite. I have never gotten sick from eating it however. Now, tuna, I can't quite bring myself to eat. I got food poisoning once from eating an undercooked tuna steak and I can't help but think about it. I suppose everyone has gotten sick at one time or another from eating an ill prepared meal. Fortunately, food preparation has improved over the centuries.

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iec786

Senior Member

Joined: 06 February 2012
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Posts: 282

Posted: 08 May 2012 at 9:07am

Originally posted by bunter

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

What is a soul????

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iec786

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Joined: 06 February 2012
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Posts: 282

Posted: 08 May 2012 at 9:08am

Originally posted by schmikbob

iec786, you are in error. This is what I wrote "

The question was about the OT but I would advocate the New Testament

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honeto

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Senior Member

Joined: 20 March 2008
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Posts: 2340

Posted: 12 May 2012 at 8:33pm

Originally posted by schmikbob

iec786, you are in error. This is what I wrote "

Please forgive me for using this example but there are a lot of things that might not seem to have much problem other than moral hurt. For example, there are a lot of kids that are born out of incest here in the US, should you do it too? that is where religion guides us and gives us some sense, sets some rules and regulations, morals and so on. Should we abonden such guidance?

I will quote a verse from your book:

Isaiah 66:¹⁷ “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the LORD.

Hasan

39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"

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schmikbob
Male Agnostic
Senior Member

Joined: 27 June 2010
Location: United States
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Posts: 422

Posted: 13 May 2012 at 7:52pm

Honeto, are you seriously comparing eating pork to engaging in an incestuous relationship. I think you need to revisit your logic. Also, why do you say "I will quote a verse from your book"? It's not my book at all.

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Topic: Pork is forbidden in Islam and Christianity.
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Author	Message
iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 05 May 2012 at 4:59am
	CIRCUMCISION : A perpetual pact with God - (a) "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money (your slaves), MUST needs be circumcised: and my convenant shall be in your flesh for an EVERLASTING convenant." GENESIS 17:13 (b) The uncircumcised to be "CUT OFF" (to be killed). GENESIS 17:14 New Living Translation (©2007) Eight days later, when the baby was circumcised, he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel even before he was conceived. very important look at this link It has nothing to do with his heart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CirconcisionRothenburg.jpg
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iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 05 May 2012 at 5:03am
	[QUOTE=schmikbob] Actually, I don't see anywhere in bunter's post where he says anyone should "embrace the New Testament". Regardless of whether you think God told Moses to kill everyone that wasn't circumcised, I doubt that you advocate death for everyone that isn't circumcised. [ /QUOTE] If you understand his reply, the post you will not see it now i will show you what he meant. This is from his post, The point about all this is that growing a beard or being circumcised will not stop you sinning or make you a better person or improve society, but loving your neighbour as yourself will have a dramatic and good effect This is what they are told in church.Do not worry about the circumcision just love all and you will be saved.Paul naild the Old Testament to the cross. schmikbob, I notice you are an agnostic,i am quite surprised that you went on to defend the Bible instead of talking about the swine ,do you find it ok to eat swine? Edited by iec786 - 05 May 2012 at 5:10am
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bunter Male Senior Member Joined: 28 March 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 123	Posted: 06 May 2012 at 8:34am
	*Originally posted by iec786* CIRCUMCISION : A perpetual pact with God - (a) "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money (your slaves), MUST needs be circumcised: and my convenant shall be in your flesh for an EVERLASTING convenant." GENESIS 17:13 (b) The uncircumcised to be "CUT OFF" (to be killed). GENESIS 17:14 New Living Translation (©2007) Eight days later, when the baby was circumcised, he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel even before he was conceived.very important look at this linkIt has nothing to do with his heart.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CirconcisionRothenburg.jpg The uncircumcised - shall be cut off from his people - By being cut off some have imagined that a sudden temporal death was implied; but the simple meaning seems to be that such should have no right to nor share in the blessings of the covenant. One must remember that earlier verses in the same chapter make it plain that circumcision is a sign, a token of the covernant. The rite itself does not make a person holy or free from sin. One might also note that women were not circumcised but nevertheless are not therefore consigned to hell. We know God looks at the heart - unless you are going to argue that circumcision make you right with God. As I have said before, Abraham received God's promise long before hewas circumcised.
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schmikbob Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 27 June 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 422	Posted: 06 May 2012 at 8:40am
	iec786, you are in error. This is what I wrote " Actually, I don't see anywhere in bunter's post where he says anyone should "embrace the New Testament". Regardless of whether you think God told Moses to kill everyone that wasn't circumcised, I doubt that you advocate death for everyone that isn't circumcised. Absolutely nowhere in here is a defense of the Bible. As for the eating of pork, yes, I love to eat pork. It's my favorite. I have never gotten sick from eating it however. Now, tuna, I can't quite bring myself to eat. I got food poisoning once from eating an undercooked tuna steak and I can't help but think about it. I suppose everyone has gotten sick at one time or another from eating an ill prepared meal. Fortunately, food preparation has improved over the centuries.
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iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 08 May 2012 at 9:07am
	*Originally posted by bunter* *Originally posted by iec786* CIRCUMCISION : A perpetual pact with God - (a) "He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money (your slaves), MUST needs be circumcised: and my convenant shall be in your flesh for an EVERLASTING convenant." GENESIS 17:13 (b) The uncircumcised to be "CUT OFF" (to be killed). GENESIS 17:14 New Living Translation (©2007) Eight days later, when the baby was circumcised, he was named Jesus, the name given him by the angel even before he was conceived.very important look at this linkIt has nothing to do with his heart.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CirconcisionRothenburg.jpg The uncircumcised - shall be cut off from his people - By being cut off some have imagined that a sudden temporal death was implied; but the simple meaning seems to be that such should have no right to nor share in the blessings of the covenant. One must remember that earlier verses in the same chapter make it plain that circumcision is a sign, a token of the covernant. The rite itself does not make a person holy or free from sin. One might also note that women were not circumcised but nevertheless are not therefore consigned to hell. We know God looks at the heart - unless you are going to argue that circumcision make you right with God. As I have said before, Abraham received God's promise long before hewas circumcised. 14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. What is a soul????
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iec786 Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Posted: 08 May 2012 at 9:08am
	*Originally posted by schmikbob* iec786, you are in error. This is what I wrote " Actually, I don't see anywhere in bunter's post where he says anyone should "embrace the New Testament". Regardless of whether you think God told Moses to kill everyone that wasn't circumcised, I doubt that you advocate death for everyone that isn't circumcised. Absolutely nowhere in here is a defense of the Bible. As for the eating of pork, yes, I love to eat pork. It's my favorite. I have never gotten sick from eating it however. Now, tuna, I can't quite bring myself to eat. I got food poisoning once from eating an undercooked tuna steak and I can't help but think about it. I suppose everyone has gotten sick at one time or another from eating an ill prepared meal. Fortunately, food preparation has improved over the centuries. The question was about the OT but I would advocate the New Testament
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honeto Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2340	Posted: 12 May 2012 at 8:33pm
	*Originally posted by schmikbob* iec786, you are in error. This is what I wrote " Actually, I don't see anywhere in bunter's post where he says anyone should "embrace the New Testament". Regardless of whether you think God told Moses to kill everyone that wasn't circumcised, I doubt that you advocate death for everyone that isn't circumcised. Absolutely nowhere in here is a defense of the Bible. As for the eating of pork, yes, I love to eat pork. It's my favorite. I have never gotten sick from eating it however. Now, tuna, I can't quite bring myself to eat. I got food poisoning once from eating an undercooked tuna steak and I can't help but think about it. I suppose everyone has gotten sick at one time or another from eating an ill prepared meal. Fortunately, food preparation has improved over the centuries. Please forgive me for using this example but there are a lot of things that might not seem to have much problem other than moral hurt. For example, there are a lot of kids that are born out of incest here in the US, should you do it too? that is where religion guides us and gives us some sense, sets some rules and regulations, morals and so on. Should we abonden such guidance? I will quote a verse from your book: Isaiah 66:¹⁷ “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs, rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the LORD. Hasan
	39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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schmikbob Male Agnostic Senior Member Joined: 27 June 2010 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 422	Posted: 13 May 2012 at 7:52pm
	Honeto, are you seriously comparing eating pork to engaging in an incestuous relationship. I think you need to revisit your logic. Also, why do you say "I will quote a verse from your book"? It's not my book at all.
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