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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2013 at 9:40pm
They – could be anybody – he, she, it, Jews, Gentiles, Roman, kafir, Muslims.
 
I just showed you 100 times "they" meant the Jews. The Jews were the only ones with a vested interest. they could not mean he she or it, let's be reasonable. The Gentiles had no quarrels with Jesus, kafir would have no idea, where were the Muslims? It's not hard to narrow it down.
 
We believe that Allah is Almighty – AllahuAkbar. He created everything in this whole wide universe with ease. Creating Adam without both parents, creating Eve without a mother, creating Jesus without a father, I have no doubts whatsoever that He is capable of creating someone to look like Jesus. Because He is Al-Aziz – The Mighty.
 
This is a great answer for Muslims. When Christians use it, it doesn't work because "whatever" is not logical. Is there an Al-xxx  for the almighty deceiver?
 
The Christians must with all their might defend the death of Jesus with whatsoever means they have. You know why? Because without his death, there is no Christianity.
Thus the Muslim conspiracy...oddly enough, there is Christianity, and it works just fine.
 
 
50/50 because Allah took him up physically and spiritually
Muslims have this idea we go to heaven in a shirt n tie. There is no way flesh and blood leaves this planet. Before you could leave the athmosphere you'd be little ashes looking for a flower to fertilize. God does not want our earthly bodys. They are for earth, not heaven. simple science. I don't think you'll find a reliable source that says Jesus ascended physically.
 
I'm thinking a lot of hadiths were configured while sitting in poppy fields.
 
I have read stories of waliyullah (friends of Allah) who could appear and disappear with the permission of Allah. Being at two different places at one time. If your soul is pure, being one with the One, this is not impossible. More so with the Prophet of Allah.
 
Be careful with this stuff. There is a much better chance of meeting an evil spirit than there is a friend of God. No permission req'd and they don't have to tell you the truth. I know you don't believe in evil as Christians do, but it doesn't make the evil realm any less present.
 
If you insist on;
153 they = Jews
154 they = Jews
155 they = Jews
156 they = Jews
157 they = anybody, everybody, he, she, Jews, gentiles, Muslims, kafir, etc.
159 they = Jews
160 they - Jews
161 they = Jews
 
Then it's a black vs white argument.
 
Then care to explain why the images of Jesus died on the cross could be found in most churches?
 
Actually that would be all (Catholic) churches and I'd rather abolish them then explain them.
 

 
 
 
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 1:48am
Webber, we Muslims know that the main culprit as in the ‘they’ were the Jews. I think it was you who tried to change the ‘they ‘ to something else.

A deceiver can never ever be almighty – because Truth will always win hence Allah is Al-Haqq – The Truth!
Originally posted by Webber


Thus the Muslim conspiracy...oddly enough, there is Christianity, and it works just fine.

Yes I agree there is Christianity – all based on the death of Jesus on the cross. If there were no death, there may not be Christianity at all.

True that we die and leave this planet without our flesh and blood. But Jesus did not die. He is still with Allah physically and spiritually. If you know the strength of our soul – yes our souls – yours and mine, you would be surprised. Perhaps the reason why he was born without a father? Allah is indeed Al-Aleem (All Knowing).
Originally posted by Webber

I'm thinking a lot of hadiths were configured while sitting in poppy fields.

Then you definitely do not know how hadiths were compiled.
Originally posted by Webber

Be careful with this stuff. There is a much better chance of meeting an evil spirit than there is a friend of God. No permission req'd and they don't have to tell you the truth. I know you don't believe in evil as Christians do, but it doesn't make the evil realm any less present.

In Islam, there is waliyullah. After prophets, they are the closest to Allah. Yes I agree that the possibility of meeting an evil spirit is more than meeting a waliyullah or friends of Allah. But they do exist. Of course we do believe in Evil. Without evil, there is no choice between good and bad, so there would not be a purpose in life.

Anyway I did not insist on anything about the ‘they’ not being Jews. Definitely ‘they’ here means The Jews. The most problematic tribe ever lived in this world. And still is.




Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 4:51am
To continue from Page 7 with the sacrifice for the purification for sin from Numbers 19:

9 Then a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and store them outside the camp in a clean place; and they shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for the water of purification; it is for purifying from sin.

--- (And this is the way the ashes of the heifer were used.)
17 ‘And for an unclean person they shall take some of the ashes of the heifer burnt for purification from sin, and running water shall be put on them in a vessel.
18 A clean person shall take hyssop and dip it in the water, sprinkle it on the tent, on all the vessels, on the persons who were there, or on the one who touched a bone, the slain, the dead, or a grave.

Note: --- The ashes of the heifer mixed with: 'cedar wood, hyssop, and scarlet,' were kept in a clean place, and would be used for ‘purification from sin.’ --- It was to be ‘a perpetual or continual statute for them,’ --- They would take some of the ashes, mix them with clean water, and use a sprig of hyssop to sprinkle ‘the water of purification’ on the unclean person or vessel.
However, when the ashes were all used up, they would have to find another unblemished heifer, to prepare more ashes.

From 2:73, --- if we ‘apply’ to the dead body, --- or ‘compare’ the dead body of Jesus to the sacrificed heifer (which was the perfect sacrifice of hundreds of years earlier for the Jewish people), --- we can see a parallel --- that Jesus was the perfect Sacrifice for sin, --- (as were the ashes of the heifer from the OT Covenant that God instructed, for the purification from sin).

--- The difference is that the dead body of Jesus was brought back to life, --- and therefore conquered death. --- And in this we ‘see His Sign,’ of ‘newness of life’ or ‘resurrection from the dead.’ --- And then, after Jesus was raised from the dead, God took Him up to Himself, --- as it says in Surah 3:
55 Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: (I understand the Arabic word used to say,"I will take thee," --- refers to physical death, asis rendered by Sher Ali in 3:
55 Remember the time when ALLAH said' `O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself, and will clear thee of the charges of those who disbelieve, and will exalt those who follow thee above those who disbelieve,

(Jesus was resurrected, rather than the OT sacrifice for purification from sin, that, when the ashes were all used up, they had to be replaced by the ashes of another perfect heifer).


As I said before, --- A footnote in the Pickthall translation: --- Maulana says that verses 72-73 refer to the Martyrdom of Jesus Christ.
Here I want to give the commentary on verses 72 and 73 by Maulana Muhammad Ali; from his website: http://www.muslim.or...quran/quran.htm

(Quote):
72a. The story generally narrated by the commentators to explain this passage is not based on any saying of the Holy Prophet; nor is it met with in the Bible. The very indefiniteness of the incident is an indication that it refers to some well-known event in history, and as almost all incidents of the stubbornness of the Jewish nation prior to the time of Jesus have been mentioned, it becomes almost certain that this incident refers to Jesus himself, as it was with respect to his death that disagreement took place and many doubted his death.
This inference becomes stronger when we compare the incidents narrated
here with the same incidents as narrated in Surah 4:153–157, where, after enumerating almost all the incidents narrated here in the three previous sections,
--- (their disobedience, their breaking of the Covenant, and their breaking of the Sabbath), 4:154-156 --- the Qur’an goes on to accuse the Jews in the following words: “And for their saying:
We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah, and they killed him not, nor did they cause his death on the cross, but he was made to appear to them as such. And certainly those who differ therein are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge about it, but only follow a conjecture” (4:157).

The part quoted answers exactly to vv. 72 and 73, only that the name is omitted here. This comparison makes it clear that it is the apparent killing of Jesus that is referred to here. --- End of quote.


Placid

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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 10:37am
Greetings  Nur_Ilah,

Regarding a couple of things you have said...
"The more knowledge you know, the more you don't know. "
Sounds like you were once familiar with Christian writing.  "In their wisdom they became fools."

"They – ... The Jews. They are the main culprit 2000 years ago until this present day. Full of mischief and arrogance beyond endurance. "
I hear prejudice in that statement.
"The Christians must with all their might defend the death of Jesus with whatsoever means they have. You know why? Because without his death, there is no Christianity. "
Actually for me there is... it is the teachings of Jesus that I follow, and the Truth is revealed in that. Smile

Salaam,
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honeto
 
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Quote honeto Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 12:41pm
CArinheart,
is that the reason you say now that different ways lead to God, when you quote "in their wisdom they became fools"?
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by honeto

CArinheart,
is that the reason you say now that different ways lead to God, when you quote "in their wisdom they became fools"?
Hasan


*sigh

No Hasan,
The more human knowledge man gains, the less he seeks the wisdom of God... to be guided by God.  Man begins to think he is a power unto himself.

We are talking about two completely different things here.

Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 24 January 2013 at 2:39pm
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Webber
 
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Quote Webber Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by honeto

CArinheart,
is that the reason you say now that different ways lead to God, when you quote "in their wisdom they became fools"?
Hasan
LOL, That was a quote about the Jews also.
 
God isn't about religion, He's about a daily personnal walk.
 
I'm a Gentile.
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Nur_Ilahi
 
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Quote Nur_Ilahi Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2013 at 7:13pm
Greetings Caringheart,
Originally posted by Caringheart


Regarding a couple of things you have said...
"The more knowledge you know, the more you don't know. "
Sounds like you were once familiar with Christian writing. "In their wisdom they became fools."

Just a difference in words, but in meaning it is the same. I always believe that Truth is One. It comes from the same source - Allah Al-Ahad (The One).
Originally posted by Caringheart


I hear prejudice in that statement.

That was not meant as a prejudice, but more of a fact.
Originally posted by Caringheart

Actually for me there is... it is the teachings of Jesus that I follow, and the Truth is revealed in that.

I doubt if you follow 100 percent of what Jesus alaihissalam taught. If you are not following 100 percent, you will never ever be able to even come near the Truth.

And the absolute truth is that Jesus was a Prophet of God Almighty, the Creator of the whole universe. Sent to mankind of his time, to submit to the will of God.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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