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Interfaith Dialogue
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Placid
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Quote Placid Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2013 at 7:06pm
To continue from above:


If you read on in acts 2 you see that Peter stood up and preached to the multitude and it says:
48 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”
41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

If you read on in Acts to chapter 6, you will see how the new Church grew rapidly, and that the Apostles were performing miracles of healing and deliverance, the same as Jesus did, AND AS JESUS SAID THEY WOULD DO ALSO. ---

And it says this in 6:
7 Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the Jewish priests were obedient to the faith.

By this time all of the visitors would have returned home and carried the Gospel message to their countrymen, the Jews. --- The prophecy said that the Gospel would go to the Jews first, and so it had.
Jesus taught the Apostles, who were Jews, --- who taught the people on and after the Day of Pentecost, who were all Jews, --- then the converted Jews took the Gospel message back to their Jewish families in all of the countries listed, --- So, within perhaps two months after the Day of Pentecost, this same Holy Spirit was working through believers to bless the, then known world.

And it continued because the Apostles went out from Jerusalem and established Churches among believers. --- Peter also had travelled to some areas, and his letter,
1 Peter, is addressed this way:
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Note: This letter is dated about 30 years after the Day of Pentecost, so Peter, who spoke on that day, still kept in touch with people who were there. --- This is why the Mission of Jesus was fulfilled following the Day of Pentecost.

Quote: So, can you please clarify what is your objection to Quran as the word of God when you are quoting from Quran to correlate and confirm the events in the gospels and don’t see any contradictions there?

Response: --- I don’t object at all to the Quran, I read it and use it in correlate the events in the Gospels, that are often ignored, --- like your opinion of the unimportance of the Day of Pentecost.
Now, I will suggest that you study the power, works, and Gifts of this Holy Spirit that can indwell Spiritual believers wherever they are. --- I admire your deep studying, so here is another study for you.
--- I don’t see contradictions between the revelations given to Muhammad and the former Scriptures.
I have high regard for Muhammad as the prophet who God used to destroy idolatry in Arabia, and bring the people back the worship of God.


Placid

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Rahman Shaik
 
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Quote Rahman Shaik Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2013 at 11:59am

Brothers,

To start with, I have a feeling that you have an objection to the name of God in Quran which is "Allah" as its not matching with your "Yehovah"/”Jehovah”...

Can you please ponder over below info...

I hope you know Jesus(PBUH) spoke in Aramaic, These are his literal (I mean literally he spoke these) words:

Mark 12:29-

"Amar leh Yashu, madmay min kullhoon puqdane, shma' Israyel, Marya Allahan, Marya Had hu"

[...And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord Allah, The Lord is One]

Matthew 19:17-

"Mana qara anta lee Taba? Layt Taba illa en Had Allaha"

[....Why do you call me good? There's none good except Allah The One]

 

Also, In Aramic, Genisis 1:1 is read as below:

"Brasheet bara Allaha eet shmaya wa eet ar'a"

[In the beginning, Allah created the heavens and the earth...]

Genesis 20:17-

Wa salee Abraham qadam Allaha

[...And Abraham prayed to Allah]

Isaiah 46:9-

Etdhikru qadmayta d'min 'alma d'ana na Allaha, wa layt toob ilah, wa layt akwatee

[..Remember the former things of old: for I am Allah, and there is no other god; and there is none like me...]

And so do not be afraid/suspicious of and have hatred towards the word "Allah",  because it’s the name of your "Creator"

Finally,

"Shlama" in Aramaic is nothing but "Islam" in Arabic

---------------------------------------------------------

I wonder why the Jews and Christians of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] ‘s time never raised this objection saying how is it that your god is “Allah” where as our God is “Yehovah”

Therefore, Allah is the name of Creator in ALL scriptures.

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Kish
 
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 02 April 2013 at 6:09am

Forsake of discussion, the Jews and Chrisitians in the Holy Scriptures acknowledge God as having a personal name (Jehovah) not just a title (God or Allah – Allah means god in english) and also being a father and having sons. Since the beginning of time it is the NAME of God, that seperated him from all the other false gods. God is not a name just as Lord is not a name, they are both titles like president, king, or queen. All presidents, kings or queens have names right? Everything has a name, since God made all things he certainly would have a name also, right?

1 Corinthians 8: 4, 6 4Now concerning the eating of foods offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but one.5For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”6there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.

Psalms 113: 2, 3 2May Jehovah’s name become blessed From now on and to time indefinite. 3From the rising of the sun until its setting Jehovah’s name is to be praised.

But the fact of the matter is, the personality of the two are strikingly different, one being a father and the other one not. In fact, there are Five Major Points within the Quran that are in stark contrast to the Holy Scriptures. Can you explain why, because no one else has been able to.  

 

1)    The Quran does not mention that Ishmael was the child to be sacrificed by Abraham

                        The Holy Scriptures mentions Isaac

2)    The Quran does not mention that Muhammad was the promised seed of Abraham

                        The Holy Scriptures mentions Jesus

3)    The Quran does not mention that a covenant was made with Ishmael by God

                        The Holy Scriptures mentions Isaac

4)    The Quran does not mention ONE person who witnessed, confirmed or testified that Muhammad’s Revelation in the cave of Hi’ra was a TRUE event, according to the Law of Moses.

 

Deuteronomy 19:15 . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the MATTER should stand good “

John 8:17, 18 Jesus said: “In your own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is TRUE.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.”

Matthew 18:16 . . .  in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses EVERY MATTER may be established.

 

5)    The Quran does not mention the god of Muhammad (Allah) as a father and having a son

(Sura 4:171)

 

The Holy Scriptures mentions the God of Jesus as his father (Matt. 3:17)

 

·         17Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

 

 

 

Originally posted by Rahman Shaik

I wonder why the Jews and Christians of Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] ‘s time never raised this objection saying how is it that your god is “Allah” where as our God is “Yehovah”

Remember, it is Islam that is promoting that the generic name of Allah is Jehovah, not the Jews or Christians. Nonetheless, who are you to say the question was never raised?

Regardless, Isaiah 42: 8 reads this 8“I am Jehovah. That is my NAME; and to no one else shall I give my own glory. . .

  

 

 

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iec786
 
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Quote iec786 Replybullet Posted: 02 April 2013 at 10:28am
Kish you made a charge that,


But like the Jews, Muslims on this forum still reject him and the Injil.


I would like you to substantiate your false lies and charge.



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Rahman Shaik
 
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Quote Rahman Shaik Replybullet Posted: 05 April 2013 at 2:53am
Originally posted by Kish

Forsake of discussion, the Jews and Chrisitians in the Holy Scriptures acknowledge God as having a personal name (Jehovah) not just a title (God or Allah – Allah means god in english)............  
 
Your statements that “ALLAH” means “GOD” and that it’s a “TITLE” are TOTALLY WRONG.
 
Allah has no translation and plural form; it’s a name by itself. Quran is from the same God who has sent the earlier Holy Scriptures. Not only did Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) but Moses (PBUH) and Jesus (PBUH) all called him out as ALLAH only!
 
Here is the explanation:
 
Allah is not a title,  Many (including muslims) have mis-conception that Allah is formed from two Arabic words – Al & Ilaah .  Ilaah means “worthy of worship” so they think “Al” is added infront of “Ilaah” to make it “Allah” (“The Only one worthy of worship”). But this is totally WRONG and a misconception due to lack of understanding Arabic Grammar.
As per Arabic grammar – Al+Ilaah will NOT become “Allah” but it will remain “Al Ilaah”
To understand this you need to know there are 2 groups of letters in Arabic -
If you add “Al” to the first group, that letter gets amplified and “la” becomes silent .. For example you add “Al” to “Rahman” it comes “Arrahman”, similarly “Al” plus “Raheem” becomes “Arraheem”
If you add “Al” to the second group, nothing happens .. For example, you add “Al” to “Kareem” it remains “Al Kareem”.
Now “Ilaah” starts with a letter that belongs to second group. “Al” plus “Ilaah” doesn’t not become “ALLAH” but it remains “Al Ilaah”
Got it? So “Allah” is not formed of two words., it’s a complete word with no translation in any language., it has to be translated as “Allah” only and not as “God” or anything else.
 
Why no objection?
 
You haven’t correctly answered my question why Jews and Christians of Prophet Muhaamad(PBUH)’s time did not raise this question of “Yehovah versus Allah”?  We don’t find any reference in Hadiths also on this sort of objection that is because Allah is not a new name and everyone at that time knows that Allah is the name of their creator.  There are many references for Jews having “Abdullah” in their name. For example we read that when Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) emigrated from Makka to Madinah, there was a old Jewish scholar  by name “Abdullah Bin Saba”. Now tell me why his name has “Abdullah”? How can a Jew have in his name a God (or a title as you are alleging) of other people whom they hate?  Some allege that In Hebrew “Allah” is pronounced as “Elah” or “Elohim”… if this is true then why this person’s name is not “Abd-Elah Bin Saba” or “Abd-Elohim Bin Saba”??
 
Slight changes in pronunciations came later-
 
Most of the languages change a bit in the course of time and hundreds of years will surely cause minor changes.
There are 3 Arabic letters in Allah, they are – Alif, Laam, Ha
What you need to understand is the “Elah” or “Elohi” in Hebrew and “Allah” of Aramaic also has these same 3 root letters but they are just pronounced slightly differently.

“Alif” of Arabic is pronounced as “Alef” in Hebrew and Aramaic

“Laam” of Arabic is pronounced as “Laamed” in Hebrew and Aramaic

“Ha” of Arabic is pronounced as “He” in Hebrew and Aramaic

 
Just google "Yehovah" and you will find that its only a translation with many disagreements between translators. Just because you are reading it Yehovah doesnt mean Prophets (Peace be upon them) spoke it or it was in original scripts of Holy Scriptures... Its just a translation for what is there in them.
 
My brother, come to terms with Truth now.,  He has not changed his name from Old Testament (OT), New Testament (NT) to Ultimate Testament (ie Quran)… It’s same “Allah”. Quran is from the same God who has sent the earlier Holy Scriptures. Not only did Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) but Moses (PBUH) and Jesus (PBUH) all called him out as ALLAH only!


Edited by Rahman Shaik - 05 April 2013 at 11:16am
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Quote Rahman Shaik Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2013 at 12:21pm
Father and Son

It makes me feel miserable how can this small concept of Father and Son cause so much confusion? Why some people do not apply logic and sense?

When God is One as per the first commandment, then how there can be a second God equivalent to first one be it in the form of Son or something else?

If you truly believe God can have a Son in literal sense, what is the difference between you and Hindus who believe God can have wives, sons, daughters etc. (Atleast they believe in a complete family !!!)

It’s absurd that the Son in the earlier Holy Scriptures is taken literally. Can’t you understand God is calling his loved slaves or Prophets affectionately as Sons? Jesus (PBUH) is not the only one called Son. Many more were called Son before Jesus (PBUH) and in some places God is calling all humans as Sons. Jesus (PBUH) said my father and your father referring to God.. Doesn’t it make sense to you that he is referring God as Father in the sense that He is his and our Creator?

For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord .. [Psalms 89:6]

You are the childrenof the LORD your God…. [Deuteronomy 14:1]

Jesus (PBUH) also called people Son, daughter

You can see that Jesus (PBUH) called someone his Son .. Matthew 9:2

Jesus (PBUH) called some one his daughter .. Matthew 9:22

Now can you take this in literal sense?

You say church father.. Is he literally a biological father for all those church members?

So what is your meaning of Jesus (PBUH) being Son of God?

Son is the one who is born of your Sperm, Jeans , blood etc.

Do you imply Jesus is born of these elements of God? Does God have these elements? May God forgive for He is above all this. If your meaning of Son is not this then what it is and what is your point in claiming divinity for Jesus (PBUH) while God of Old testament is clearly declaring that none in heaven and his sons can be likened to him?

Father, son, wife – these are human relationships.. How can we apply these things to God? I fail to understand what happens to your common sense in this regard. It’s like saying that if Human created bi-cycle, then human should also be like bi-cycle (with two wheels, one handle, chain etc).

God is above all what we ascribe to him.

Is it because Jesus (PBUH) has no father?

Or are you confused because Jesus (PBUH) was born without a father? Did Adam (PBUH) born of neither mother nor a father? He is also referred as Son of God

Cainan was the son of Enos. Enos was the son of Seth. Seth was the son of Adam. Adam was the son of God. [ Luke 3:39]

Still can we say Adam is son of God? Why not? Because …. For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord .. [Psalms 89:6]

There are Sons Greater than Jesus (PBUH)

Then you should say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son… [Exodus 4:22]

I will lead them in that way because I am Israel’s father. And Ephraim is my firstborn son. [Jeremiah 31:9]

Some say Jesus (PBUH) is mentioned as begotten son so he is different from other sons. Nope.. There are others mentioned as begotten too. For example, David is also referred to as begotten son:

I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. [PSALMS 2:7]

Entire Israelis are begotten:

Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. [Deuteronomy 32:18-19]

God is our Creator so he is the father of all his creation in that sense

We all have the same father. The same God made every one of us. So why do people cheat one another? [Malachi 2:10]

Thus the Father-Son relationships in Holy Scriptures are mentioned in a totally different context – emotional, affectional and spiritual sense only.

 

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Rahman Shaik
 
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Quote Rahman Shaik Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2013 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by Kish

          1)    The Quran does not mention that Ishmael was the child to be   sacrificed by Abraham

                        The Holy Scriptures mentions Isaac

2)    The Quran does not mention that Muhammad was the promised seed of Abraham

                        The Holy Scriptures mentions Jesus

3)    The Quran does not mention that a covenant was made with Ishmael by God

                        The Holy Scriptures mentions Isaac

.............

 

 

Brother,

I guess it can be clearly proved it was Ishmael (PBUH) and not Isaac (PBUH) that was to be sacrificed.. anyway, for me it doesnt make difference. If it makes for you, I can present you that article which I need to dig out as I read it sometime back.
 
I have read many hadiths in which Jibrael (AS) comes to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) while he was sitting among a group and reveal aspects of religion and later Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) acknowledges to those group of people that he was Jibrael (AS)., Anyway, I think the witness issue comes not for Prophets (peace be upon them) as the righteous among us only are chosen as Prophets (peace be upon them). Its for ordinary people like you and me to testify when we make a claim or commit something, we need to have witness support.
 

Now, Quran explains “X” number of things and it doesn’t explain “Y” number of things.

No matter how many things are explained, human tendency is to still wonder about things that are not explained.

Now you decide whether you want to be guided through these “X” number of things that are explained or mis-guided through “Y” number of things that are not explained.

God Almighty has complete wisdom and we do not know why he chose to explain only X number of things, he knows it best.



Edited by Rahman Shaik - 06 April 2013 at 12:40pm
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Quote Kish Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2013 at 9:03pm

You make all these allegations but what scriptural proof do you have to back up what you say? I gave you mine where is yours?

Besides, everyone knows Moses and Jesus did NOT speak Arabic, so the term Allah is totally out of the picture! Bottom line, just as there is a stark contrast between night and day, so it is between the God of the Holy Scriptures and the God of the Quran as those 5 points show you.

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